Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year • Hacker News Board

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#171

Post by papito » Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 1:14 PM UTC

sampo wrote: post #83

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend did his Masters from Finland and said his monthly expenses were about 200-300 Euros in his first year. I think he spent a bit more in subsequent years after getting a part-time job. That's 18000+ euros if extended to 5 years. Don't overestimate living expenses in a 500 year old walkable town with a small university in a --socialist democracy-- country that cares about its citizens.

> socialist democracy In Nordic countries, we don't really like it when Americans call us socialist democracies. We are market economies like everyone else. Here's a take from the Danish prime minister: https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-ministe...

Well, here in America, we don't believe that Capitalism and "society" should coexist together. The people help sustain Capitalism - not the other way around. Also, we don't believe in providing such communist things as healthcare for everyone, because we strongly believe Capitalism does NOT benefit from a strong and healthy workforce.

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#172

Post by sampsonitify » Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 1:15 PM UTC

FemmeAndroid wrote: post #77

bambax wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not wanting to go into debt either But doing lambda school is going into debt, isn't it? A different kind of debt but a debt nonetheless.

Yes. And it’s a kind of debt that actively disincentives getting a raise if that raise pushes you just above 50k. Since at that point you’ll start owing Lambda school 17% of your salary for 2 years. It actually does what people who don’t understand progressive tax rates think the tax system does. Can you imagine going to Lambda school, not getting a good education, not getting a much higher paying job, then being stu…

I find it weird how often the criticisms don't cite anything real.

https://lambdaschool.com/isa is there data, and I am sure there is more. Can you reference your post to what they state they charge for?

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#173

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 1:18 PM UTC

degrews wrote: post #161

rswail wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning to program is more like an old fashioned trade than a profession. I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I mean that what should be happening is apprenticeships. If "industry is crying out for more people", then it should be investing in that in the same way it does in every other part of the supply chain. They should be hiring and training programmers, not externalizing their costs.

I agree, but I think that in order for that to work, we would have to accept much lower salaries for junior/apprentice engineers (until they've proven they can add value). And maybe also a higher tolerance for firing engineers who are not working out early. As it is, I'm not surprised companies are reluctant to bet on the potential of untrained engineers, _and_ the chance that they'll stick around long enough to make…

[deleted]

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#174

Post by isaacaderogba » Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 1:18 PM UTC

Awh man, this is a bummer.

I attended Lambda School from April-November 2019. I was in the Web Dev unit for 4 months and a Team Lead for the remainder. I got a job early so didn't get to do Labs or Computer Science, though I've heard they weren't great experiences. I'm not 100% looped in what's happening with Lambda anymore (they removed the Alumni from the student Slack channels), but I hope they're able to turn things around.

For what it's worth, I did enjoy my time there. It helped me get over anxiety around tackling projects, and it gave me a taste of what fast-paced learning looks like. Was also able to use what I learned for Pioneer and YC. That said, it does feel weird to be on the hook for €27,500 - for what was effectively 4 months of instruction in my case.

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#175

Post by sampsonitify » Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 1:19 PM UTC

dave_sullivan wrote: post #67

thaumasiotes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What costs more, $30,000 and 6 months, or $30,000 and 48 months?

Bit of a fallacy to think you’ve become a better programmer by spending $5,000 per month on instruction instead of $625 per month, isn’t it? Or that the student with 6 months instruction is somehow more employable than the student with 48 months?

Neither is employable off the bat, and it takes time for someone with zero experience to be valuable.

That makes question who is more employable: a student with 48 months of University, or someone with 6 months of Lambda and 2.5 years of real world experience? Note, I assumed the Lambda grad had a year unemployed.

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#176

Post by meheleventyone » Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 1:19 PM UTC

jacobion wrote: post #149

rswail wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning to program is more like an old fashioned trade than a profession. I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I mean that what should be happening is apprenticeships. If "industry is crying out for more people", then it should be investing in that in the same way it does in every other part of the supply chain. They should be hiring and training programmers, not externalizing their costs.

The way apprenticeships traditionally worked is that the apprentice was bound to the master for a certain number of years, and his parents also often had to pay to have him taken on. The tension between needing trained labour, but not wanting your trained labour to walk out the door and seek employment elsewhere (literal meaning of 'journeyman') was resolved firstly by extremely severe constraints on the apprentice a…

I don't think we need to look at apprenticeships through a lens that is quite out of date. For example you can look at the apprenticeship schemes in the UK:

https://www.apprenticeships.gov.uk/

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#177

Post by burnthrow » Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 1:21 PM UTC

st1x7 wrote: post #8

People are paying ~$30k for bootcamps? Why not get a degree at that point?

The dirty secret of free market capitalism is that you can basically open a lemonade stand with sign "HAPPINESS" and charge any amount. There are some hopelessly thick people out there, and a shortcut to success is taking advantage of them. Probably many of these students paying $30k could not even complete a college application before a deadline. I don't know how these "entrepreneurs" can sleep at night.

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#178

Post by rubidium » Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 1:22 PM UTC

checkyoursudo wrote: post #85

codethief wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only needed $30k to survive for five years in Sweden ?

My family of four spends less than $15K per year for necessities in Sweden (housing, clothes, food, car ins, phone, internet, other utilities), so I can believe that a single student could live for $6000 per year if they have roommates or live in student housing. We live in a very small town and rent a nice house for less than $500/month, so of course your choices will make all the difference. We couldn't do this in…

That’s pretty remarkable... can you give more details on monthly budget:

After $500 for rent that’s only $750 left. Food: $500? Cell phone/ internet:$70? Clothing: goodwill? Car insurance: $100? Utilities:?

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#179

Post by Siira » Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 1:23 PM UTC

soneca wrote: post #62

What is sad to me looking from the outside it is that it didn’t have to be that way. Most of negative reviews seem to boil down to too many students, not enough support, not professional enough course management. Symptoms of growing pains. But why Lambda School had to grow that much that fast? It didn’t. It shouldn’t. It was at the expense of their students. Lambda School seemed a great idea from the start, revolutio…

Perhaps their success rate has gone down, but their absolute successes have grown enough for them to accept it. Perhaps they should add some more expensive tiers for better student support.

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#180

Post by gexla » Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 1:24 PM UTC

dougSF70 wrote: post #156

I suspect they set out with noble intentions and then realised it is a conversion-funnel game where they absorb the cost up front with the hope of recouping cost and profit later on. If 100% students passing through landed a job then the unit economics would work provided hard costs are low enough. Business might even be successful at 30% post Lambda School employment. However, as they scale that number will fall bec…

> All in all, an experiment in business model is taking place

Which is all businesses at that scale I think. You're not reinventing the wheel offering plumbing services in your local village.

I guess we have to think about how these experiments might play out and the risks involved as we participate in them. How will food delivery services change my community? What's the risk that an investment in personal education with this newly launched service won't pay off? What am I giving up by opening a free account with Facebook?

There's a strong likelihood that any of these experiments will blow up. Just as there's a strong likelihood that a direct investment in any of these companies won't pay off (especially as an early investor, which is at the point where we're likely using these services.) Maybe people shouldn't be so quick to jump in early, and more accepting of the mistake once they find out they placed a bad bet.