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Ethereum 2.0 launches

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Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#631

Post by capnorange »

woah wrote: post #595
capnorange wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how about getting a higher interest on your savings account using defi on your usdc? Isn't this a real world use case?

That's as much of a use case as "get rich from dogecoin". Both of them are based on speculation. The "high interest" is just a derivative that shapes the speculation a certain way. Underlying it is still people speculating on cryptocurrency. It's different from a conventional bank account, because there the returns are (theoretically) coming from the bank loaning it to entrepreneurs to buy factory and farming equipme…

The difference from "get rich from dogecoin" is that there is no downside(aside from smart contract risk).

You could however be morally against earning interest through others speculating. In that case you could still earn better interest by just by being USDC-sUSD LP on curve.fi.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#632

Post by capnorange »

tylersmith wrote: post #572
capnorange wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

everyone's money is not at risk -- only the people who are transacting. There are also tools to know a estimate a good number of confirmations needed.

Everyone's money is the result of transactions, all transactions are at risk of being reorged, so everyone's money is at risk. Those tools don't work in this chain death scenario of dwindling hash rate.

> all transactions are at risk of being reorged

Satoshi's coins are always uneffected in case of a reorg. So if everyone else's who have never transacted since the reorg.

Chain reorg's are usually temporary even in chains with low security budget.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#633

Post by keymone »

wpietri wrote: post #630
keymone wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many more years of clear correlation between value and chain difficulty must pass for you to recognize that there’s something in there? Also, bitcoin is scarce because it’s hard to get more of it, what the hell is your definition of scarcity? It seems to change from one comment to another.

Bitcoin has not proven market value beyond a speculative instrument and a vehicle for financial crime. In particular, it has failed in its original goal to be peer-to-peer electronic cash. I hope real value emerges someday, but after a decade's track record, I don't expect it. My definition of scarcity is when the people in the market to buy cannot easily get more of the thing that they want. For people just wanting…

> Bitcoin has not proven market value beyond a speculative instrument and a vehicle for financial crime. In particular, it has failed in its original goal to be peer-to-peer electronic cash.

Very much has. Wild speculation moved on from bitcoin to altcoins circa 2015, from altcoins to ico in 2017 and from ico to defi in 2019. Bitcoin is old and boring.

Vehicle for financial crime - that’s just ridiculous, not even bothering to respond. Go google what fines banks paid in recent decade for financial crimes before claiming this bs.

And bitcoin is p2p cash for all intents and purposes. Ticks all the boxes for me.

> people in the market to buy cannot easily get more of the thing that they want

Yeah, you can’t get more bitcoin, it’s scarce.

> For people just wanting to speculate, other cryptocurrencies are substitutable.

Well that’s a dumb definition of scarcity, unless you also think gold isn’t scarce because there are tons of substitute metals for purposes of speculation on the market.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#634

Post by dirtnugget »

Benmcdonald__ wrote: post #602
dirtnugget wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it is enforced by the protocol on which all node agree and there needs to be a mechanism for syncing clocks across nodes (also defined by the protocol) but they exist, e.g. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8946264 Not 100% sure what ETH is using here but there is a mechanism. If someone would want to fake timestamps, they would need to deviate from the protocol and would thus not be on chain.

You are simply raising the fundamental difficulty with blockchains. How do you know what is the true chain in an adversary environment (the internet)? You gave us the question and no answer

Validation of the longest chain, agreed upon by the protocol which the nodes are running. This is the absolute fundamental of this technology. This is not new and it has been working for more than a decade.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#635

Post by dirtnugget »

dirtnugget wrote: post #634
Benmcdonald__ wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are simply raising the fundamental difficulty with blockchains. How do you know what is the true chain in an adversary environment (the internet)? You gave us the question and no answer

Validation of the longest chain, agreed upon by the protocol which the nodes are running. This is the absolute fundamental of this technology. This is not new and it has been working for more than a decade.

* which the majority of nodes are running

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#636

Post by wpietri »

keymone wrote: post #633
wpietri wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin has not proven market value beyond a speculative instrument and a vehicle for financial crime. In particular, it has failed in its original goal to be peer-to-peer electronic cash. I hope real value emerges someday, but after a decade's track record, I don't expect it. My definition of scarcity is when the people in the market to buy cannot easily get more of the thing that they want. For people just wanting…

> Bitcoin has not proven market value beyond a speculative instrument and a vehicle for financial crime. In particular, it has failed in its original goal to be peer-to-peer electronic cash. Very much has. Wild speculation moved on from bitcoin to altcoins circa 2015, from altcoins to ico in 2017 and from ico to defi in 2019. Bitcoin is old and boring. Vehicle for financial crime - that’s just ridiculous, not even bo…

Nah. Bitcoin speculation is still popular, as any popular press search for "Bitcoin" will show you. People are buying in because they hope the price will go up.

I appreciate you not responding on crime, as that saves me some time.

I can believe Bitcoin "ticks the boxes" for ardent Bitcoin fans, but that doesn't say much about the rest of the world. Bitcoin did not end up being cash in the common sense of the term. E.g.: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/16/nyregion/new-york-today-l...

For speculation, yes, some metals are substitutable. Silver is a popular alternative to gold. To a lesser extent, platinum, palladium, and rhodium. If you don't believe me, just go look at some of the sites and vendors that cater to gold bugs. And I'll note that Bitcoin has often been called "digital gold" and has drawn plenty of interest from the same kinds of people who speculate in gold, so Bitcoin can also be a substitute.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#637

Post by kolinko »

mratsim wrote: post #30
kolinko wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is powered by proof of stake, which means no asic miners, and possibly quicker blocks. A new virtual machine for smart contracts (EWASM instead of EVM) giving better contract analysis options, and possibly higher sync speeds due to optimisations. Also, sharding - so multiple jndependent blockchains, that should fix the scalability. If I’m not mistaken, this release is not yet a full blown new chain, but just a par…

The VM for smart contract is not set. The roadmap has changed for the phases after this launch so that Eth1 contracts and the Eth1 chain can run on Eth2 so that the past years of Eth1 development are not thrown away. Reading on the roadmap: https://ethereum-magicians.org/t/a-rollup-centric-ethereum-r... Disclaimer, this roadmap is valid as of today Dec 1st 2020 but it might have change a couple of months from now.

Ah, good to know, thanks. I was a bit out of the loop for the past year.

I wouldn't mind staying with EVM, since EWASM doesn't seem to offer much significant improvement (static jumps only, really).

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#638

Post by cannabis_sam »

kristianov wrote: post #548
kgin wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all involved parties voluntarily agree to be bound by these contracts despite the fact there's no way they can be enforced Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I don't think ETH contracts count on humans doing anything.

All useful contracts in real world are dependent on humans, unless the machines can make and deliver a pizza, with extra cheese and no pineapples.

No, there are completely mechanical contracts being executed every day.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 launches

#639

Post by Benmcdonald__ »

dirtnugget wrote: post #635
dirtnugget wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Validation of the longest chain, agreed upon by the protocol which the nodes are running. This is the absolute fundamental of this technology. This is not new and it has been working for more than a decade.

* which the majority of nodes are running

That's not how the technology networks. That naive implementation would leave you wide open for sybil attack
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