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Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

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Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#101

Post by Jhsto »

pram wrote: post #49
lawn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: $30k is almost exactly how much the Swedish student loan gives you for 5 years of full time study, which I used to pay for everything (housing, food, clothes, computers, books for school etc).

$30k covered housing and food for 5 years? Seems like there has to be some other subsidy present you're not mentioning lol

$30K is the loan which is usually 1-2% APR. In Finland, which more or less copies Sweden policies, also gives you subsidized housing (50% or around 250€, which ever is less, median where I went to was around 400€ for 1bd apartment), subsidized food (2€ lunch and dinner every day of the week, median lunch when eating out is around 10€), and around another 250€ a month in general student aid. There are also a lot miscellaneous student discounts for public transportation and it is common for private companies to also offer a slight discount to students only.

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#102

Post by Mauricebranagh »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #90
sampo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> socialist democracy In Nordic countries, we don't really like it when Americans call us socialist democracies. We are market economies like everyone else. Here's a take from the Danish prime minister: https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-ministe...

Sorry. But I am Pakistani. From my perspective, if the government is providing free health coverage, subsidized accommodation to students, free education [0], and good public transit, then it is fulfilling the ideals of socialists. However, the label of the actual system might be different, which is totally fair. [0] I think Finland is now charging a small tuition fee, at least for non-EU students.

Its not "free" its free at the point of use, its paid for out of general taxation.

Otherwise Bismarck's 19th century Prussia would be socialist

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#103

Post by tester34 »

in "my country" programming bootcamps are considered as a big scam that rely on selling dreams to people like: becoming SE* in 3-6 months or some shit like that for N minimal wages

ofc bootcamps do work for some people (minority)

*let's not argue about developer vs engineer vs coder vs programmer

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#104

Post by Grustaf »

jacobion wrote: post #86
Grustaf wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because it’s more lucrative to rip people off doesn’t mean it doesn’t make financial sense to run a good code bootcamp. That’s like saying it doesn’t make sense to work because it’s more lucrative to steal or live off welfare. But sure, it’s a common problem in a market economy. Presumably issues of information asymmetry should be alleviated in the days of the internet.

But it doesn't make economic sense to work rather than steal, unless there are enforced rules and sanctions against stealing. Most people who choose to work do so either because of the sanctions, or because of various reasons which are not about maximizing returns in a narrow economic sense.

The post didn't say that it made sense _relative_ to something else, it just said running a school in the proper way didn't make economic sense, and that is not true (except in the sense pointed out in another comment, that honest schools may be outcompeted).

My point is just that a project's economic viability doesn't depend on the relative merits of other projects.

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#105

Post by Grustaf »

watwut wrote: post #82
Grustaf wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because it’s more lucrative to rip people off doesn’t mean it doesn’t make financial sense to run a good code bootcamp. That’s like saying it doesn’t make sense to work because it’s more lucrative to steal or live off welfare. But sure, it’s a common problem in a market economy. Presumably issues of information asymmetry should be alleviated in the days of the internet.

> Just because it’s more lucrative to rip people off doesn’t mean it doesn’t make financial sense to run a good code bootcamp. The good code bootcamp wont be able to compete in the sort term. The scam version will first attract more customers in short term and destroy overall trust in the long term.

This is a good point, although I am not sure that it makes it impossible to survive as a good school, it just makes it harder.

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#106

Post by codingdave »

cjrp wrote: post #28
rootlocus wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the wrong question. Any commitment to education is an investment. At that point, you should be thinking in terms of ROI.

If you're using both the degree and the bootcamp to achieve the same goal (e.g. a paying job), then surely being ready for employment sooner is preferable?

No. I can get a paying job right out of high school, while someone going to medical school will be hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for over a decade. If you are just looking at wealth at age 25, people working in fast food made better choices than doctors. Yet somehow, 10 years later, the doctors are ahead.

Clearly that is an extreme example, but it illustrates the point - getting a paying job quickly does not mean it is the best answer for long-term salary and career growth. Getting any old coding job just to get one is not the same thing as getting the full education that comes from a degree. That doesn't make it the wrong answer... getting a job matters. But if you are comparing long-term outcomes, you need to look at it with more context.

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#107

Post by jcelerier »

Galanwe wrote: post #37
jcelerier wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get a degree for muuuuch less in europe. In france it'd be something like 1k€ at most over your whole post-high-school studies unless you go to specialized art school or something like that.

(Did all my studies in France at public schools (university).) I think the fee was 300€/year, most of it was headed toward paying mandatory access to the university library. That would be 300x5=1500€ (~2k$) for a complete engineering degree. Lets not forget that all this is paid with tax money though. You will sort of pay back these studies when paying your taxes once working :)

> I think the fee was 300€/year, most of it was headed toward paying mandatory access to the university library.

In Bordeaux it's ~200€ for licence and ~300€ for master, but yeah, lowballed that a little bit.

But ! Note that in France almost 40% of university students get the state grant (https://www.campusmatin.com/vie-campus/experience-etudiante/...) - and thus don't even have to pay the inscription fee.

> Lets not forget that all this is paid with tax money though. You will sort of pay back these studies when paying your taxes once working :)

People in the US pay income tax, too - https://www.companow.com/us-vs-france-where-do-you-pay-the-m...

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#108

Post by offtop5 »

I'm a bit split on boot camps.

On one hand if you're already a high income earning person, such the lawyer and you need to pivot it can be an option.

But they're targeting high school grads and others who aren't as prepared. I don't think you actually need any formal training to become a programmer, I don't and I do exceptionally well.

Once you add in investors who expect returns, why wouldn't lambda School enroll as many people as they could without any regard to education. Those who are motivated will learn on their own, find themselves entry level tech jobs and can be put up as an example of successful students.

Those who fail will be shown as too lazy to put in the effort.

If I was to advise a new student on what path to take, I had almost always say to go to college. The main advantage being that you can grow a real Social circle, and with the coming saturation of boot camp grads you'll have an actual degree.

For non-traditional students, such as working parents many state schools offer online curriculums which will be a much better fit versus an exploitive boot camp.

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#109

Post by morelisp »

soneca wrote: post #75
Tomte wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But why Lambda School had to grow that much that fast? Isn't that obvious? They have investors. It's precisely what Joel writes about in https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/05/12/strategy-letter-i-...

I know the incentives are there to have exponential Silicon Valley hyper growth. But there are also incentives to be a company that still exists and it is big 20 years from now. And there are ethical decisions that could be made despite of the incentives. Even being a YC company, I believe it didn’t have to be that way. Edit: thanks for the link, great article. ”Land grab” is a great term for what I currently think a…

> Even being a YC company, I believe it didn’t have to be that way.

YC is a startup incubator. A startup, as defined by YC's founder, is a company that grows fast.

Trying to convince anyone in SV that this is extremely dumb or dangerous or unethical is a waste of time.

Re: Lambda School is the biggest mistake I made this year

#110

Post by jcelerier »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #38
jcelerier wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get a degree for muuuuch less in europe. In france it'd be something like 1k€ at most over your whole post-high-school studies unless you go to specialized art school or something like that.

Are you sure? Back when I was in school, I looked hard at all the options for studying abroad in France and found none with tuition even close to that cheap for even just a semester or summer. I suspect the prices you're talking about are heavily subsidized and only if you're French (which the OP probably isn't).

here are the prices for my local university - https://www.u-bordeaux.fr/Formation/Candidatures-et-inscript...

Where do you come from ? If it's from the US, sure, it's quite more expensive. If it's from another european country, or a poor country, it should be cheap.

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