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U.S. Treasury breached by hackers backed by foreign government – sources

reuters.com

261–270 of 389 posts

Re: U.S. Treasury breached by hackers backed by foreign government – sources

#261
post #251

So apparently Russian hackers were able to infiltrate the Office 365 accounts of multiple federal agencies. They were able to do to this by targeting one of the government's suppliers, a company called "SolarWinds" in Austin. The hackers were able to slip their software into a software update from SolarWinds over the summer. And get this: "SolarWinds says on its website that its customers include most of America’s Fo…

> Yikes Well thanks to working at a large org I can say the mountains of pointless conversations that anyone has to dig through to find anything useful is the biggest security feature. Not the security tech. I mean this is the govt we are talking about. Known for inefficiency and incompotence. The person or team going through that shitpile is probably at high risk of brain damage. Its easy to find something juicy hap…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Treasury breached by hackers backed by foreign government – sources

#262

Does the US conduct offensive cyber operations like this? I feel like we never hear about them in the news.

They pretty much don't ever want you to hear about them in the news. They don't want compromised entities to know they are compromised so they will keep revealing sensitive information through the systems; they don't want specific vulnerabilities they are using to be known so they won't be patched, or even the general sorts of capabilities they have to be known; and at least traditionally it's thought like it makes the U.S. (or any other country) look bad to be breaking other country's laws and spying on them like this, when it's a country we theoretically aren't in hostilities with. It might make the attacked nations feel they have to retaliate in some way too, if it's public.

Perhaps if the NSA focused more on defense instead of offense, they'd have been better able to protect our own government against this sort of attack. Who can say if some of the vulnerabilities used were ones the NSA in fact knew about but was keeping in it's pocket for it's own use. A well-resourced expert federal agency actually focused on security could make everyone safer from snooping; when they instead prioritize snooping themselves, they instead help make everyone less safe from snooping.

Re: U.S. Treasury breached by hackers backed by foreign government – sources

#263

So apparently Russian hackers were able to infiltrate the Office 365 accounts of multiple federal agencies. They were able to do to this by targeting one of the government's suppliers, a company called "SolarWinds" in Austin. The hackers were able to slip their software into a software update from SolarWinds over the summer. And get this: "SolarWinds says on its website that its customers include most of America’s Fo…

1) I was involved in improving the security scanning of SignalFX agents about a year ago (if there's a changelog, then you can figure out the month.) So SignalFX has at least basic processes in place now based, on results from our scanning. You will have to upgrade if you're using older packages and want the benefits of the new release processes.

Note they were initially bewildered, until I pointed out that their entire client list could be pwned. Then they got on top of it.

2) Note that if you use multiple agents, it's possible to have up to 5 GB RAM used for agents. That means if you're using 8GB RAM containers/VMs in production to run java applications, they are starting with less than 2 GB RAM for application and heap. You might want to check on that.

Upvote to thank me for the time invested in improving their agent packages.

Re: U.S. Treasury breached by hackers backed by foreign government – sources

#264
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Jon Pollard, for one. He spied for Israel. Israel certainly has the chops to do something like this, but lots of other "friendly" countries with good geeks wouldn't mind having this kind of info.

I would bet on China, not Israel. Nation-states calculate risk/reward. With Jonathan Pollard, the reward was huge: getting your own nukes. Hacking the treasury ? Not sure what Israel would gain from that; the costs of being perceived to attack a friend would be relatively higher. Whereas China has obvious reasons to want to know what US economic policymakers are thinking, and has little to lose in terms of reputation…

> and has little to lose in terms of reputation.

Nothing to lose at all. Deny the attacks and thank the news gods for publicity that distracts from reporting on their ongoing concentration camps.

Re: U.S. Treasury breached by hackers backed by foreign government – sources

#265
post #219
post #216

It's time to admit that computers connected to the internet can not be secured. Even if the entire operating system is vetted and locked down, and only vetted and audited apps are run on the system, there will always be zero day exploits. Science has come up with no possible way to provably secure network connected computers. So do not trust them any more. Please prove me wrong, but I doubt you can. The most trusted…

To be fair you have the burden of proof by asserting "computers connected to the internet can not be secured."

>To be fair you have the burden of proof by asserting "computers connected to the internet can not be secured."

How so?

In fact, competent InfoSec folks will tell you that you should assume that "if you connect a device to the Internet, eventually it will be compromised."

That's not to say a device will be compromised, but making such an assumption, given the history of Internet connected devices is an eminently reasonable one.

I've yet to see any formal proof that computers connected to the Internet can be secured.

If you have, please link a reference. I'd love to see it.

Re: U.S. Treasury breached by hackers backed by foreign government – sources

#266
post #212

So apparently Russian hackers were able to infiltrate the Office 365 accounts of multiple federal agencies. They were able to do to this by targeting one of the government's suppliers, a company called "SolarWinds" in Austin. The hackers were able to slip their software into a software update from SolarWinds over the summer. And get this: "SolarWinds says on its website that its customers include most of America’s Fo…

...and yet somehow people tell me I'm crazy when I demand that software not autoupdate without user intervention. Automatic updates are RCE vulnerabilities.

Election officials in two counties claimed that an automatic update to Dominion machines was to blame for their multi-hour outage during the election. Automatic updates are not only vulnerabilities but can undermine trust in elections.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/04/georgia-election-ma...

Re: U.S. Treasury breached by hackers backed by foreign government – sources

#267
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and yet somehow people tell me I'm crazy when I demand that software not autoupdate without user intervention. Automatic updates are RCE vulnerabilities.

To be clear, given that one never knows if or when a provider has been compromised... is the plan to just not update? What if they were compromised before you initially obtained the software? There's not much that can stop attacks like this. Preventing lateral movement, escalation, exfiltration, detection, and remediation, among other things, would be the way to go.

Some companies (and even some individuals) are of the opinion that, since they are "good" or "smart" or spend $x amount for "security", they aren't going to get compromised. Even worse are the ones who still concentrate their efforts on their firewalls and assume that, inside the network, all is well. They're the ones whose networks and systems are going to be completely and thoroughly "pwn3d" when someone does eventually get in.

Nowadays, the general attitude amongst the "experts" is to assume that you/your company/organization WILL -- at some point -- get compromised and to, instead, plan for that eventuality and work to minimize the damage an attacker can do once they have gotten a foothold inside your network.

That means doing just the things you mentioned: preventing oateral movement, privilege escalation, and exfiltration of data, concentrating on RPO/RTO (a.k.a., getting things back up and running as quickly as possible once the shit hits the fan), and so on.

I've certainly not heard of anyone recommending that software and systems NOT be updated. There's only so much you can do, though. You can make sure that all of your software is only coming from "trusted sources", verify the published checksums (if any) and attached digital signatures, scan files with an up-to-date anti-virus (although, nowadays, that may not actually be worth anything), and yet STILL get hit by something like this.

So, you do what you can, try to protect yourself and your organization as best you can, and prepare yourself for when the day comes that it's your name in the headlines instead of the Commerce Department and Treasury Department.

(Personally, I'm of the opinion that if a nation-state wants in your network, they will -- one way or another -- get in. I'm looking forward to the day that hosts don't have a default route, are blocked at egress, and all "external" traffic has to go through firewalls and proxies before it can get out.)

Re: U.S. Treasury breached by hackers backed by foreign government – sources

#268
post #135

I'm always skeptical of these "nation state" claims, it seems like an easy way out of any tough question about the security of these systems. "No, no, you don't understand, it's not that our systems are insecure, it's that the attackers where highly sophisticated and had the resources of a nation state, otherwise it would never have worked out". I suppose "we think it could be done by a group of two or three teenager…

I thought all the script kiddies were using curl ? :)

Re: U.S. Treasury breached by hackers backed by foreign government – sources

#269
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WaPo reporting it is APT29. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/russian-gov...

I wish we had more concrete evidence than "according to people familiar with the matter" though. That's kind of my issue: if these attackers are so sophisticated, how can they be sure it's this particular group? I realize that there are probably many good reasons for not sharing deep technical details in such cases, but from the point of view of an external observer it's really hard to know who should be trusted and…

Because those people would lose their jobs, possibly do jail time, and possibly the story would never have broken in the first place if reporters were required to always give up their sources in the article. Usually they do vetting or it's people they've worked with before and they trust.

Re: U.S. Treasury breached by hackers backed by foreign government – sources

#270
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A salaried employee has absolutely zero incentive to take on that risk unless ordered, and the same would go for whoever ordered them, so it just doesn't really happen. Companies would love it, but at the end of the day people just don't take risks like that when they could simply choose not to and likely be just fine.

But a company officer can just slip cash to a third party in another country to launch an attack. Maybe that's the explanation, that that kind of thing is difficult to attribute.

They totally could, but honestly if companies could get their employees to do even that they'd probably be a lot more efficient, for better or worse.
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