Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber

#101

Post by fao_ » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 6:05 PM UTC

JKCalhoun wrote: post #77

padolsey wrote: post #2

Hi HN. I made a tool that allows you to discover what books you are least likely to have come across or enjoyed, but are nonetheless highly rated. These books will likely challenge you if you tend to read quite narrowly. Briefly, for each book entered we find the rarest but highest rated intersections and provide those to you. The query can be summarised as: which highly rated books are least read (and enjoyed) by pe…

Yes, we need more engines like yours. Instead, Amazon, Spotify, etc. simply steer me toward the more mainstream genre-media that I already know about. Oh you like Grandaddy? You'll like the Pixies. Oh you like the Pixies? You'll like Radiohead. Oh you like the Radiohead? You'll like Nirvana. Please, I want to go the opposite direction.

I listened to over 500 totally different genres on spotify lately, it's not difficult, it just means you have to do slightly more work than blindly listening to whatever spotify shoves you? The trick is to pick a specific genre of music -- soul, rock, whatever. Use spotify's playlists to get a rough idea of the genre and then use the radio feature to suggest more. There are good genre explorers, too -- i seem to remember one posted here that introduced me to tanci/pingtan, and managed to find some example works to listen to.

Re: Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber

#102

Post by tshaddox » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

isogon wrote: post #58

fouc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting idea! I could see it being good training for simultaneously holding two opposing thoughts in your head at any given time. What do you hope to gain out of going to the effort of consuming media like this? Why not just go on an information diet altogether?

I think it is valuable to read a hundred convincingly-written arguments in favor of one point of view, become convinced, and then read a hundred opposing arguments and again become convinced. This maintains my awareness of the fact that I'm a terrible judge of veracity of arguments. Since I want to know what happens in the world, I must be exposed to arguments, so I think it's very important to be viscerally aware th…

This seems to presume that these points of view you’re talking about have no objective truth value, and that the only worthwhile exercise is constructing “convincingly-written” rhetoric to support one side or another.

Re: Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber

#103

Post by kqr » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 6:15 PM UTC

gcatalfamo wrote: post #26

I think there is a genuine need for escaping echo chambers but every attempt is usually aimed just showing the opposite side/narrative. If I am conservative I won’t be open to be shown the most leftist content, and viceversa, while instead I might be open to be shown more balanced views that might gradually carry me out of my echo chamber instead of reinforcing it. edit: this an OT comment more related to the echo ch…

I think in order for the opposite thing to work, you have to approach the material with the understanding that "There are people who believe this stuff as firmly as I believe the complete opposite. If you asked them, they say, with absolute conviction, that I'm nuts. How might that happen? What if they're right? What could I have missed?"

This engages System 2, hard. And it's so easy to slip back into System 1 and continue to reject the evidence in front of you, as System 1 does so well when it doesn't like what it's seeing.

I have to constantly remind myself of the possibility that I could be wrong or have an incomplete view of things, but then that allows me to extract the valuable nuances and hidden assumptions that underlie the belief.

Even more importantly, it tends to cast a light on my unconscious biases and assumptions that underlie my beliefs.

Re: Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber

#104

Post by buzzerbetrayed » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 6:20 PM UTC

chme wrote: post #92

ironmagma wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Averages are one kind of truth though, and if your worldview is based on averages it has some amount of accuracy to it. The trick is that there are more averages than just the mean, such as standard deviation, so to have a correct view you must care about all averages.

> Averages are one kind of truth though, and if your worldview is based on averages it has some amount of accuracy to it. I think that is a fallacy. Just because some standpoint is in between two other standpoints, does not make it correct. Each side might look at some facts from a different perspective and might be correct but at the same time contradicting (at least at the first glance), but the 'average' could sti…

Sounds like you two are saying nearly the exact same thing, using different words.

Re: Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber

#105

Post by andrewem » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 6:23 PM UTC

jsmith99 wrote: post #3

padolsey wrote: post #2

Hi HN. I made a tool that allows you to discover what books you are least likely to have come across or enjoyed, but are nonetheless highly rated. These books will likely challenge you if you tend to read quite narrowly. Briefly, for each book entered we find the rarest but highest rated intersections and provide those to you. The query can be summarised as: which highly rated books are least read (and enjoyed) by pe…

Loved it, but I felt a large proportion of the 'bubble breakers for software engineers' are actually referenced quite often on hacker news. Not 'Taking charge of your fertility' though.

“Taking charge of your fertility” is basically about how to gather and analyze data about your body’s functioning, in order to achieve a desired health outcome (specifically, pregnancy).

Re: Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber

#106

Post by tshaddox » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #83

arminiusreturns wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people call stuff they dont like "delusional belief systems" while ignoring the truths, even if nuggets, behind those systems...

I don't know man? People don't like, a lot of things, they don't call them delusional. We call things delusional because they are, in fact, delusional. What makes it dangerous is that people deeply believe that their delusions are "truth". Belief to the point of fundamentalism, where they will kill non-believers in their delusions.

Both obviously happen. The “delusional” label is used (rightly) to dismiss certain claims, but then of course people use the same label incorrectly when attempting to dismiss claims they don’t like.

Re: Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber

#107

Post by stanrivers » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

Well, my very first recommendation was the Bible.

So, I guess I've got that going for me.

Re: Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber

#108

Post by tshaddox » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

User23 wrote: post #95

bilbo0s wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know man? People don't like, a lot of things, they don't call them delusional. We call things delusional because they are, in fact, delusional. What makes it dangerous is that people deeply believe that their delusions are "truth". Belief to the point of fundamentalism, where they will kill non-believers in their delusions.

Naturally you can’t refute the claim that your stated belief there is delusional.

Sure you can. You can provide explanation of why your claim is not delusional.

Re: Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber

#109

Post by buzzerbetrayed » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

diego_moita wrote: post #87

Now I am very confused. In theory it sounds like a very good idea. But when I tried this site what I got is a lot of books about religion. And I don't want to know anything about religion. I just can't bring myself to have intellectual respect for it. "Open your mind" can be healthy if you are stuck in dumbness but can be a bad advice if you have sound and valid core beliefs as in "a mind too open doesn't hold anythi…

I really hope the irony of this comment isn’t lost on you

Re: Show HN: An anti-book recommendation tool, to help you escape your echo chamber

#110

Post by diego_moita » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 6:33 PM UTC

Siira wrote: post #94

diego_moita wrote: post #87

Now I am very confused. In theory it sounds like a very good idea. But when I tried this site what I got is a lot of books about religion. And I don't want to know anything about religion. I just can't bring myself to have intellectual respect for it. "Open your mind" can be healthy if you are stuck in dumbness but can be a bad advice if you have sound and valid core beliefs as in "a mind too open doesn't hold anythi…

You need to find opposing views that are just on the edge of your current comfort zone, I think. Of course, the whole exercise of having an open mind doesn’t reward one that much, as having a sound worldview has diminishing returns.

Yeah, this is very meaningful. I agree with you.

Usually, when you exercise careful judgement and have a broad culture you don't jump from one belief system to it's complete opposite. Usually you slowly evolve it along time.