New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night • Hacker News Board

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#201

Post by tonyedgecombe » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 9:10 AM UTC

jsiepkes wrote: post #182

Maybe I'm missing something but the "The Drive" article and the article they reference [1] talk about reading license plates up to half a mile (750m): > read the license plates of speeding cars almost half a mile (750 m) away. In actuality, the TruCam II itself is technically capable of clocking plates up to almost a full mile (1.5 km) But the actual product spec of the device [2] says: > Quickly view license plate d…

Presumably you could measure the speed at a distance then image the number plate as the car gets closer.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#202

Post by magicalhippo » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 9:12 AM UTC

magicalhippo wrote: post #159

chrismcb wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But to what end? Ignoring the privacy aspect, the point should not be too ensure everyone goes the does limit or slower. The point should be that people are traveling at a reasonable and safe speed. Driving fast doesn't necessarily mean unsafe. You can be driving the speed limit and be going at an unsafe speed. So the speed cameras make it more likely that people will be under the speed limit. But are the roads safer…

> But are the roads safer? Absolutely yes. Speed contributes in two major ways when it comes to accidents, which this is all about: reaction time and energy. Going faster means you have less time to react and handle the situation. If you're going 100 km/h instead of 80 km/h, and something happens 100m in front of you, you have only 3.6 seconds instead of 4.5 seconds to react and deal with it. This scales with distanc…

Or to put it a bit more bluntly, based on this chart[1] of typical stopping distances versus speed, you can come to a stop in 53m if you're going 80km/h.

If instead you're going 100km/h, your car will be still be doing over 60km/h after 53m...

Obviously the exact numbers will vary based on car and conditions, but the point stands about just how much things change when you're speeding.

[1]: https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/559afb11e...

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#203

Post by peterdn » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 9:14 AM UTC

bArray wrote: post #77

> To the inevitable dismay of U.K. street racers who > primarily partake in their favorite illegal motorsport > after hours, the TruCam II also features night mode > whereas the first TruCam, which has already reportedly > been in use for the past six years, only worked during the > daytime. I think this really comes down to the letter of the law vs the spirit of it. To the spirit of the law, i.e. saving third-party…

> As a free person I think you need to have the right to make bad decisions and accept their consequences, as long as those do not impact others.

Peak Libertarian fantasy to think this should apply here. Unfortunately, the real world is never so ordered and predictable that you can know for certain whether the country road you're about to speed on is completely empty. Just like you, the rest of us have the right to use that road as well whenever we please.

Even if you were the sole victim in such an accident, you're ignoring all the second order societal costs. Who will pay for the police time spent investigating the accident, delivering the news to your loved ones, and the cost of bereavement leave on their employers? Who's going to pay for removing the wreck and fixing whatever infrastructure (e.g. the road surface) you might have damaged? What about the mental health effects on the unfortunate neighbour who discovers your mangled corpse? And if you're only injured, how about the costs of an ambulance and medical treatment? We don't all live in the USA where that is (supposedly) borne by the individual.

Whether you like them or not, speed limits exist for good reasons.

> doing 35 mph in a 30 mph really going to kill anybody?

Demonstrably yes. Check out this study by the UK's Transport Research Laboratory. The chances of killing a pedestrian rise dramatically from around 10% at 30mph. The likelihood roughly doubles at 35mph. Remember that kinetic energy increases with the square of velocity, not linearly, so even small increases in speed can have dramatic effects on accident outcomes: https://nacto.org/docs/usdg/relationship_between_speed_risk_...

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#204

Post by whoooooo123 » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 9:15 AM UTC

est31 wrote: post #174

generalizations wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> street racers have killed many innocent bystanders, You're not responding to the point. The parent was talking about solitary drivers, and used remote parts of scotland as an example.

IDK to me that sounds like downplaying the issue. Drunk driving is not ok, not even in remote parts of Scotland. As for driving 35 in a 30 zone... I can agree that it's not much of an issue if it's next to a school and you drive in the middle of the night: there won't be any children entering or leaving the school at that time. But generally, these racers drive way faster, and don't give a fuck about any of these rul…

30 v 35mph is not a trivial increase. It's nearly 20% faster. And kinetic energy scales quadratically with velocity.

According to a popular UK road safety campaign, if you hit a pedestrian at 35mph you're 2.5x more likely to kill them than if you hit them at 30mph (50% chance vs 20% chance)

https://www.roadwise.co.uk/using-the-road/speeding/the-chanc...

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#205

Post by rangibaby » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 9:16 AM UTC

Felz wrote: post #196

jl6 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, you’re totally wrong. The spirit of the law is not just to save third party lives. When you cause an accident, you drain society’s emergency response resources (and increase the premiums of those in your insurance pool). 35mph vs 30mph is a terrible example - this is the scenario where pedestrians and cyclists are most likely to be around. 75mph vs 70mph would have been a better example. Driving at night is mo…

Keep in mind that how strict the speed limits are seems to vary significantly by local laws and driving culture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_Sta... So what might be unacceptable "speedo pedo"ism where you live might be completely normal going 5 miles over the posted speed limit elsewhere. My personal experience is that people tend to drive at a speed they feel safe at, and don't pay that…

Japanese law requires the police to prove that you were speeding beyond reasonable doubt, so posted speed limits are all 20km/h+ under the de facto speed limit. It leads to absurd situation like expressways with a posted 60km speed limit but a 100km/h real limit.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#206

Post by remus » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 9:16 AM UTC

Closi wrote: post #197

tempestn wrote: post #194

My issue with the strict enforcement of speed limits is that safe speed for a given stretch of road varies drastically based on conditions. These would include weather, light level, traffic density, vehicle capabilities and condition, and driver experience and aptitude. It's not possible to set an optimal speed limit for all these conditions, so normally speed limits are set quite conservatively. Of course it is theo…

The U.K. does have variable speed limits on most major motorways that change with conditions, congestion etc, with LED signs that display the current speed limit.

Smart motorways will readily adjust the speed limit down (often for no discernible reason), but they don't increase the speed limit were it may be appropriate e.g. good weather and very limited number of vehicles on the road.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#207

Post by noizejoy » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 9:16 AM UTC

petre wrote: post #106

generalizations wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you know the area. The parent has a couple of counter examples to that. Seems like the caveats, that sometimes you do actually know you're alone, are exactly the scenarios we're talking about.

If you know you are truly alone, then you know there's no police. Plus there's animals. I see dead foxes, dogs and cats all the time on the road.

At least in the more remote parts of Canada, hitting a moose at high speed has a very good probability of taking you out along with the moose. So driving respectfully at night is a really good idea.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#208

Post by arp242 » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 9:16 AM UTC

dm319 wrote: post #195

est31 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK about the UK, but in Germany street racers have killed many innocent bystanders, just for the crime of crossing the street at night. So yes please, enforce rules more strongly. In fact, even ambulances crash into each other every now and then at night, because they usually drive without their horns (technically then they aren't allowed to run red lights, only if it's been sounding for at least 15 seconds, but peo…

I'm in the UK, and by the time you've reached a certain age, we've all heard of families torn about by bad driving. The couple who we bought our house from, the mother pulled out in front of two racers just down the road from us and ended up with life changing injuries, unable to walk and with brain damage. A little boy at our local nursery died along with his father hitting a van head on who'd crossed the road takin…

Purely anecdotal, I noticed there were far more people in fancy cars going at ridiculous speeds in ridiculous stretches of roads with loads of pedestrians and cyclists around when I lived in Bristol compared to the Netherlands. I called them CICs: "Cunts In Cars".

Road design probably plays part in this; a comparatively wide fully asphalted road probably isn't the best design for 20mph. Traffic calming and all that.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#209

Post by IshKebab » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 9:17 AM UTC

Closi wrote: post #199

ISL wrote: post #17

I once saw speed cameras as "un-sporting" until travelling elsewhere in the world where they are commonplace. In those countries, it seems like everyone just drives the speed limit. If the point of speed enforcement is to, you know, ensure that everyone is going the speed limit or slower, they're awesome. Norway's system of timed speed cameras are particularly wonderful -- they simply photograph a car and then photog…

I’ll assume you aren’t in the U.K. (which this article is about), because the U.K. system is almost exactly as you describe! > Norway's system of timed speed cameras are particularly wonderful -- they simply photograph a car and then photograph it again many kilometers later. If you get there too soon, then at some point, you must have been speeding. Uk has a combination of: * Average speed cameras (as per the Norway…

Average speed cameras are very rare outside roadworks though.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#210

Post by mhh__ » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 9:17 AM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #193

timc3 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a fair point though. They couldn’t even be bothered to look into my Dads stolen boat engine because it was only worth £10,000 - even though he had a pretty good lead about the organized outfit that did it.

I mean, does anyone really think these cameras and fines are really to ensure public safety? Seems more like taxation and fear mongering. If the UK police are anything like the US, they don’t care about theft even if you have a solid lead and evidence. Theft reporting is purely for statistics.

The UK police are not like the US. They aren't very well funded, and they police by consent rather than shooting people (They probably would do more, but you have to realise that in many parts of the UK we don't see police even driving about let alone on the beat i.e. fear mongering)