Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#91

Post by hessenwolf » Thu, May 12, 2011, 12:03 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #16

There is no need to rationalize why you use Bittorrent, there is no argument to win and nothing to defend. It's not stealing, it's not not stealing it's just a fact that people will continue to use bittorrents as long as there is too much friction to get it legally. Bittorrent will be around as long as the content owners insist on localizing copyright and not offering their content to a globally oriented customer bas…

Meh; right or wrong it is looking increasingly like sharing of content for free is inevitable. More interesting are the consequences of this change.

1. The resources that were spent on these products will be invested alternatively.

2. With a lower margin for performance, continued (live) performance becomes the only way to make a living.

3. Production-on-demand as opposed to production, followed by marketing for demand will produce more producer-motivated that audience-motivated content.

4. MTV cribs will have a lot less bling.

5. Based on my middling wage in the financial services sector, I could totally get a Kylie.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#92

Post by sp332 » Thu, May 12, 2011, 12:04 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #70

rimantas wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law was written way before there was possible to make an exact copy of something while leaving the original intact and way before the cost of such act is so close to zero than even those who have no money to buy original still are able to make the copy. One can apply the same laws, but doing so is stretching them too much. Consider the possibility of you making exact copy of a car just by pressing a button on som…

b) they still got all the money for the cars they produced, there is not a single missing It doesn't work like that - in the event of a magical button that can replicate a car, all the cars they'll be able to produce and sell is exactly 1. In such an event the car maker won't be able to recuperate its sunk costs, and the writing would be clearly on the wall, so such a magical car will never be produced, unless there'…

It doesn't work like that - in the event of a magical button that can replicate a car, all the cars they'll be able to produce and sell is exactly 1.

Every movie sold on Blu-Ray, ever, is available via torrent. And yet they still sell.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#93

Post by tomjen3 » Thu, May 12, 2011, 12:07 PM UTC

oemera wrote: post #55

Wait. This is YCombinator right? Why on earth does no-one create a startup to make buying digital copies easier wherever you live? Why is that so hard?

Because it is an artificial problem (created by rent seekers) not a technical problem.

Artificial problems are murderously difficult to crack and often disappears when the underlying technology shifts.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#94

Post by ThomPete » Thu, May 12, 2011, 12:08 PM UTC

hessenwolf wrote: post #91

ThomPete wrote: post #16

There is no need to rationalize why you use Bittorrent, there is no argument to win and nothing to defend. It's not stealing, it's not not stealing it's just a fact that people will continue to use bittorrents as long as there is too much friction to get it legally. Bittorrent will be around as long as the content owners insist on localizing copyright and not offering their content to a globally oriented customer bas…

Meh; right or wrong it is looking increasingly like sharing of content for free is inevitable. More interesting are the consequences of this change. 1. The resources that were spent on these products will be invested alternatively. 2. With a lower margin for performance, continued (live) performance becomes the only way to make a living. 3. Production-on-demand as opposed to production, followed by marketing for dema…

Oh I agree.

Why should the music and movie industry be the only industries being allowed to keep the middle men when the value they provide is almost nill.

The reality is that the bands coming out today have no problem being both good with marketing, technology and doing music.

There is nothing that says that it's a right of a musician to record an album for almost nothing, reproduce and distribute it litterally for free. And make hundreds of millions reselling it. It's not a right it's a privilege.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#95

Post by luminarious » Thu, May 12, 2011, 12:11 PM UTC

Note that a large number of these are apps stores. I can imagine the licencing fees or whatnot being the showstoppers for audio/video, but what on earth is so difficult about selling applications?

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#96

Post by RealGeek » Thu, May 12, 2011, 12:14 PM UTC

billpg wrote: post #74

As someone with money who enjoys a lot of American TV, I'm not really interested in excuses why these services are not available worldwide. Quit making excuses and make it happen. The torrenters don't seem to have any trouble building a global distribution network, and they are hiding from the law while simultaneously kicking your butt. If you don't want to make it happen, quit whining about losing money. I have mone…

The delay in geographical releases is because studios license the copyrights to a regional studio or a distribution company.

Unfortunately, this arrangements prohibits them to use any alternate distribution channels to release the content on their own. Also, the regional company is unlikely to have any arrangements with services like Netflix and Hulu.

In the end its all about the money and bureaucracy.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#97

Post by CrazedGeek » Thu, May 12, 2011, 12:15 PM UTC

kahawe wrote: post #80

mhd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

International copyright laws are a bit of a mess.Also, in lots of countries you have to pay a fee if you're "performing" publicly. And according to some agencies, Youtube videos do count as such. If I remember correctly, one such agency, the German GEMA wanted to collect 12 Euro cents each time a major label video was watched on youtube.

> the German GEMA Another thing that should be against the law... Even if I only have an internet access at my home, no TV and no radio, I still have to pay a quarterly "licence fee" (see http://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/licencefee/ ) because certain public stations have a website and could offer certain TV or radio programs on their website.

Are you sure you have to pay the license fee? http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/wh... seems to suggest otherwise.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#98

Post by microtonal » Thu, May 12, 2011, 12:20 PM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #36

microtonal wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I'd add to that that paying 15 Euro for a BluRay may be perfectly acceptable in the Western world, but a huge budget hit in the rest of the world. The buy 'physical media via the Internet' argument doesn't fly there either.

Right, and a 250k Lamborghini is also a huge budget hit for me in the West. Which is why I drive a shitty Citroen. I'm sick and tired of the entitled whining. Nobody owes you the right to listen to the latest album of whoever is at the top of the charts; in fact, nobody owes you anything but what they agreed on. The proposition is very clear: there are people who create something. They give it to you, on the conditio…

I am a utilitarian.

If someone cannot afford a movie, downloading does not equate to a lost sale. It does not hurt any person involved with the creation of that movie. It can possibly make the downloader a bit happier. Therefore I think that, in this case, downloading perfectly moral.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#99

Post by ugh » Thu, May 12, 2011, 12:28 PM UTC

michael_dorfman wrote: post #84

rimantas wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law was written way before there was possible to make an exact copy of something while leaving the original intact and way before the cost of such act is so close to zero than even those who have no money to buy original still are able to make the copy. One can apply the same laws, but doing so is stretching them too much. Consider the possibility of you making exact copy of a car just by pressing a button on som…

The law has nothing to do with "making a copy" or "leaving the original intact." Wiring into the neighborhood cable-tv network without paying is an example of "theft of services", as is sneaking into a movie theater. Making an illegal copy still takes money out of somebody's pocket. Saying that you wouldn't (or couldn't) have bought the product makes no difference-- the demand is still being alleviated, and non-zero.

I do not take money out of anybody’s pocket when I’m pirating something I can not and will never be able to buy. (Reality is never quite that clear cut but what you are saying is, strictly speaking, not true.)

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#100

Post by Tyrannosaurs » Thu, May 12, 2011, 12:33 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #90

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true - it doesn't make it right (necessarily) but it is true. The other thing I'd say though is that most people will still operate within their own moral code. In the UK technically platform shifting (transferring music from CD to MP3 for instance) is illegal but that doesn't stop anyone as people see it as a historic oddity and not something which is even remotely morally wrong. It's not uncommon that the s…

Honestly if there is no chance that I ever buy something (say because it is not available for sale) what does it matter if I download it? I can see the argument for torrent over buy, but not really torrent over nothing.

I suspect the argument might run that by not doing something about it you encourage others who might have paid to pirate your product ("if he's not paying why should I?").

But this (if it happens at all) will frequently be offset by those who pirate now but might become legitimate clients in the future. People in this category might be students (no cash at the moment but will have in the future) or those pirating just to see if they like something (one of the reasons home taping never killed music - because through compilation tapes you had people doing your marketing for you and finding you new fans). In this instance you not only lose nothing now but you're actually building product and brand awareness.

Certainly I'd say that effort put into stamping down on this might be better spent trying to convert people to real clients in the future.

The only other thing I can think of is whether there's any legal aspect whereby if you fail to defend your IP you lose rights. I believe that this is the case for trademarks but don't know if it extends. If it did it might mean that you had to put up at least a token fight.

Broadly it seems that the best strategy is just that - some relatively low barriers more as a reminder than anything else and then leave it at that.