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Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

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Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#101

Post by Blikkentrekker »

slightwinder wrote: post #70

This is old news and it was wrong. This happend at the height of a new wave of DMCA claims, so people simply assumed this had to be the reason. But it turned out later he showed some nudity, for which he got the usual 3 day-ban. Also, DMCA claims are not automatically leading to bans. It must have a certain level of harm ir repeated behaviour. And live-DMCA-checks are not active yet it seems, so usually the vod or cl…

Also, even if he composed the music, that's no guarantee that he owns the copyright.

If the copyright be transferred to the label, then his legal rights to stream it are potentially no more than that of any other person.

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#102

Post by whack »

libertine wrote: post #31

When will platforms start to be charged for their mistakes? Pretty sure if they had to make financial compensations for their mistakes, they would start using humans more often to support this crap automated system. You would start to see more people being able to reach human support, getting human replies, etc. Would be pretty easy - for each day without reply, fine X. For X day of suspension, fine Y. And so on. If…

> When will platforms start to be charged for their mistakes? Pretty sure if they had to make financial compensations for their mistakes, they would start using humans more often to support this crap automated system.

How exactly would you enforce this? Media companies have the right to not show content from a given artist, at any time, for any reason. If you passed a law saying that twitch has to pay fines for false DMCA takedowns, they would simply take down the same artist anyway, without giving them any reason whatsoever. Which hurts the artist even more - now they can't even appeal the decision, because they would have no idea why it occurred

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#103

Post by jakelazaroff »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #101
slightwinder wrote: post #70

This is old news and it was wrong. This happend at the height of a new wave of DMCA claims, so people simply assumed this had to be the reason. But it turned out later he showed some nudity, for which he got the usual 3 day-ban. Also, DMCA claims are not automatically leading to bans. It must have a certain level of harm ir repeated behaviour. And live-DMCA-checks are not active yet it seems, so usually the vod or cl…

Also, even if he composed the music, that's no guarantee that he owns the copyright. If the copyright be transferred to the label, then his legal rights to stream it are potentially no more than that of any other person.

That’s part of the problem!

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#104

Post by amanaplanacanal »

fortran77 wrote: post #67

Every time I upload a video of me playing a "classical" work (Bach, Chopin, Mozart) on the piano, I get a YouTube warning and the content blocked. So far, about two dozen times, I challenge it and it comes back, but I expect someday to exceed some threshold and be gone forever. Some of the challengers are "scam" companies, but other times it's Deutsche Gramophone or Sony.

Evidently your playing sounds too much like one of their professionals. Take it as a complement.

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#105

Post by jakelazaroff »

whack wrote: post #102
libertine wrote: post #31

When will platforms start to be charged for their mistakes? Pretty sure if they had to make financial compensations for their mistakes, they would start using humans more often to support this crap automated system. You would start to see more people being able to reach human support, getting human replies, etc. Would be pretty easy - for each day without reply, fine X. For X day of suspension, fine Y. And so on. If…

> When will platforms start to be charged for their mistakes? Pretty sure if they had to make financial compensations for their mistakes, they would start using humans more often to support this crap automated system. How exactly would you enforce this? Media companies have the right to not show content from a given artist, at any time, for any reason. If you passed a law saying that twitch has to pay fines for false…

It’s easy to blame the platforms here, but this is just a symptom of the root problem. This will continue to be an issue as long as most art is controlled by litigious conglomerates trying to protect their cash cows.

The immediate fix is to fine the entities filing false DMCA claims, not the platforms enforcing them. The longer term fix is to take away power and control from these giant corporations and give it back to the artists.

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#106

Post by coryrc »

whack wrote: post #102
libertine wrote: post #31

When will platforms start to be charged for their mistakes? Pretty sure if they had to make financial compensations for their mistakes, they would start using humans more often to support this crap automated system. You would start to see more people being able to reach human support, getting human replies, etc. Would be pretty easy - for each day without reply, fine X. For X day of suspension, fine Y. And so on. If…

> When will platforms start to be charged for their mistakes? Pretty sure if they had to make financial compensations for their mistakes, they would start using humans more often to support this crap automated system. How exactly would you enforce this? Media companies have the right to not show content from a given artist, at any time, for any reason. If you passed a law saying that twitch has to pay fines for false…

Public businesses are held to higher standards on choosing who to do business with than individuals, so why shouldn't monopolies be held to even higher standards? No secret takedowns, only allowed method is to follow the dmca law process, not take down whatever they want whenever they want. If they don't want to do that, then they can choose to not be a monopoly by raising prices significantly and leave room for competitors.

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#107

Post by nerdponx »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #65
nerdponx wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't bully the tech corps, they bully content creators using the DMCA, and the tech corps have to let them do it by law. And big corps in general, tech or not, know that it's in their best interest to not blatantly and visibly break the law, lest it invite additional regulations or penalties. The problem fundamentally is a warped counterproductive copyright law that enables organizations like the RIAA to do wha…

Not suggesting they break the law. I mean, these copyright laws were put in place by intense lobbying from megacorps. Why don't megacorps that stand to gain from more relaxed copyright law do the same?

What's to gain by actively fighting the RIAA? They know that they are an oligopoly when it comes to content distribution. They only have to keep content creators happy enough to avoid disruption by upstart competition, and they only have to keep regulators happy enough to not get regulated harder. It's not like there are serious alternatives to Twitch, Youtube, and Facebook if you want to make money streaming. All 3 of those companies have more or less the same incentives to act (or not act) in the same way.

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#108

Post by satyrnein »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #101
slightwinder wrote: post #70

This is old news and it was wrong. This happend at the height of a new wave of DMCA claims, so people simply assumed this had to be the reason. But it turned out later he showed some nudity, for which he got the usual 3 day-ban. Also, DMCA claims are not automatically leading to bans. It must have a certain level of harm ir repeated behaviour. And live-DMCA-checks are not active yet it seems, so usually the vod or cl…

Also, even if he composed the music, that's no guarantee that he owns the copyright. If the copyright be transferred to the label, then his legal rights to stream it are potentially no more than that of any other person.

If he was playing his own composition live, it's not the recording that the label owns. This is why revenue from live shows doesn't go to labels. This is also why Taylor Swift is re-recordings her old songs, for another example.

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#109

Post by Blikkentrekker »

satyrnein wrote: post #108
Blikkentrekker wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, even if he composed the music, that's no guarantee that he owns the copyright. If the copyright be transferred to the label, then his legal rights to stream it are potentially no more than that of any other person.

If he was playing his own composition live, it's not the recording that the label owns. This is why revenue from live shows doesn't go to labels. This is also why Taylor Swift is re-recordings her old songs, for another example.

The label would not own the performance, no, but he would still not be allowed to give a performance of any material he does not own without the permission of the rightsholder.

There are some “reasonable fair use” exceptions such as simply singing a certain tune, but the point is that the fact that he wrote the original composition is irrelevant; it only matters that he owns the copyright.

If the copyright indeed were transferred to the label, then he enjoys no more rights to perform it than anyone else.

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#110

Post by Blikkentrekker »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #103
Blikkentrekker wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, even if he composed the music, that's no guarantee that he owns the copyright. If the copyright be transferred to the label, then his legal rights to stream it are potentially no more than that of any other person.

That’s part of the problem!

Perhaps, but it would not be Twitch's fault.

There are many arguments that can be made for the idea that copyright should not be transferable, much like reputation rights, but Twitch is certainly no party to blame for that it is.

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