Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#31

Post by libertine » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 3:37 PM UTC

When will platforms start to be charged for their mistakes?

Pretty sure if they had to make financial compensations for their mistakes, they would start using humans more often to support this crap automated system.

You would start to see more people being able to reach human support, getting human replies, etc.

Would be pretty easy - for each day without reply, fine X. For X day of suspension, fine Y. And so on.

If they give tools for people to make their lively hood on, then they are responsible for their mistakes. This is happening for far too long, on too many platforms: Youtube, Amazon, Twitch... only if you have special access to insiders, or if you're some kind of celebrity, or you reach a massive outcry, is when you are able to reach a human that solves your problem rather quickly?

I say that's bullshit. Make them pay.

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#32

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 3:37 PM UTC

How does the record industry bully behemoths like Amazon (Twitch) and Google (Youtube)?

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#33

Post by nerdponx » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 3:42 PM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #32

How does the record industry bully behemoths like Amazon (Twitch) and Google (Youtube)?

They don't bully the tech corps, they bully content creators using the DMCA, and the tech corps have to let them do it by law. And big corps in general, tech or not, know that it's in their best interest to not blatantly and visibly break the law, lest it invite additional regulations or penalties. The problem fundamentally is a warped counterproductive copyright law that enables organizations like the RIAA to do what they do.

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#34

Post by est31 » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

zinekeller wrote: post #30

mnd999 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right but surely his recording contract with Universal would allow him to perform his songs.

In a commercial context?

Maybe even in a commercial context. In fact it's quite likely that concerts get treated specially. The issue is, these automated censorship tools don't encode the nuanced clauses of such contracts. They err on the side of banning, even if it's perfectly legitimate.

Also IMO in the digital age it's so stupid that teachers can't even read a book to children via Zoom without a license...

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#35

Post by pricechild » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 3:48 PM UTC

mkl95 wrote: post #27

Doesn't this Twitch feature basically ban games like Guitar Hero? What about game OSTs that are also sold separately?

> ... a certain song (CDPR didn’t say which one) during the game’s “Braindance” sequences might trigger a Digital Millennium Copyright Act strike. That’s even if you’re using the specific in-game setting designed to toggle off copyrighted music for this exact reason.

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#36

Post by montjoy » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 3:51 PM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #23

Spivak wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? You’re literally talking someone else’s song and reproducing it. You just have to ask the copyright holder for permission and then you’re good. It’s how the whole world of covers work.

In the US you don’t need to get the copyright holder's permission to record cover songs, you need to pay for a mechanical license. In the case of live performances you don’t need to get permission directly. The venue is the one that pays royalties to a handful of groups that have agreements with thousands of artists.

Yup. I have a strong “fuck you” to ASCAP for charging my favorite small coffee shop insurmountable fees and forcing them to stop having live musical performances. FWIW the musicians played mostly original work.

ASCAP has also been actively against the EFF, Creative Commons, and others.

> In June 2010, ASCAP sent letters to its members soliciting donations to fight entities that support weaker copyright restrictions, such as Public Knowledge, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and Creative Commons

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Society_of_Composer...

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#37

Post by wbl » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

clircle wrote: post #2

Well, did he just write the songs or does he own the copyright? The former isn't enough to make this a wrongful suspension.

Music copyright is complicated and there are certain rights that attach to each performance vs. the music. If I sit down and play Bach that recording cannot be copied without my permission but you can sit down and record your own performance of Bach.

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#38

Post by wbl » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 3:56 PM UTC

zinekeller wrote: post #30

mnd999 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right but surely his recording contract with Universal would allow him to perform his songs.

In a commercial context?

Concerts are commercial contexts.

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#39

Post by aidenn0 » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 3:59 PM UTC

mnd999 wrote: post #29

zinekeller wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Universal is the owner of the copyrights (including the lyrical and syncronisation copyrights), and this is DMCA we're talking about. This would end up differently in Europe or UK (the original authors are irrevocably entitled to some percentage of the revenue, typically 5%) but DMCA is based on American laws (which do not have these protections).

Right but surely his recording contract with Universal would allow him to perform his songs.

Probably live performances, but not on video recording

Re: Twitch suspends DragonForce guitarist Herman Li for playing his own music

#40

Post by wbl » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 4:01 PM UTC

dafoex wrote: post #24

clircle wrote: post #2

Well, did he just write the songs or does he own the copyright? The former isn't enough to make this a wrongful suspension.

This is a fair point, though. Just because you're the producer doesn't mean you're the owner. Book authors often go to publishing houses to get their book published, in which case the author has little control over their work. Also, commissioned works are usually copyright to the commissioner or other employer, that's why Doctor Who is copyright to the BBC, not Steven Moffat.

SFWA standard terms are the author grants US publishing rights, not the entire copyright. https://www.sfwa.org/2009/07/05/model-contract-hardcover/

Authors should never sign anything worse then that.