Kind of expected a darker end to the story, feels good to hear such a vim optimist, thanks!
Vim Creep (2011)
21–30 of 169 posts
Re: Vim Creep (2011)
#22Truly a great story! Reminds me of this story... Two years ago I was collaborating with a coworker. Most of our time was in his office. I would look over his shoulder as he typed. He had recently adopted a new IDE and spent considerable time configuring it and learning its features. He was very proud of how productive it made him. Then one day we collaborated in my office instead. I use plain Unix tools, all independ…
My .bashrc is on a quest to turn my yakuake into the better half of vscode. "The shell is my IDE" is definitely true.
Though Google takes up a worryingly large fraction of it. Wonder if there could be a shell tool to just dump the first stackoverflow hit for a search.
bashrc highlights: https://gist.github.com/FeepingCreature/649588a2f6fa27c717bd...
- ctrl-G for "directory up"
- ctrl-E for "find and open in editor" (using fzf, substitute 'edit' with your editor of choice; the history gymnastics is to basically pretend that you typed it in manually for purposes of bash history)
- and of course, for german keyboard layout devs, rebinding capslock to alt-gr.
Re: Vim Creep (2011)
#23> You recorded macros, you moved entire blocks of code with the flick of a finger, you filled dozens of registers, and you rewrote and refactored entire components without even glancing at your mouse. You mean: spend untold hours scripting and recording interactions that give you about 10% of capabilities of a modern IDE. I've personally seen long-time vim users switch to Idea after looking over my shoulder.
> You mean: spend untold hours scripting and recording interactions that give you about 10% of capabilities of a modern IDE.
For information, not all vim users are trying to reimplement the capabilities of a modern IDE in vim.
Some of us are just fine with vanilla vim/vi (and derivatives) because we are comfortable enough with the *nix environment [1] and don't need IDEs' fancy GUIs and integrations with stuff such as code completers, repls, debuggers, tag browsers, linters, etc.
In my opinion if one needs the full capabilities of a modern IDE right in their editor one should go with a modern IDE.
Trying to turn vim into a modern IDE with a zillion of plugins and glue scripts is a leisure activity and a time sink. Or just for the people who want to look cool [2].
I think this is the mindset you are criticizing.
[1]: Read: Already "spent untold hours" in the past, for better or worse
[2]: This is not bad per se. How are we going to impress nerdy girls otherwise? Your development environment doesn't always have to be about "work". Some people are also understandably after a certain kind of "hacker aesthetics". I mean looking at Idea's interface you can't feel like Neo entering the Matrix. Who cares about productivity??
Re: Vim Creep (2011)
#24Truly a great story! Reminds me of this story... Two years ago I was collaborating with a coworker. Most of our time was in his office. I would look over his shoulder as he typed. He had recently adopted a new IDE and spent considerable time configuring it and learning its features. He was very proud of how productive it made him. Then one day we collaborated in my office instead. I use plain Unix tools, all independ…
My .bashrc is on a quest to turn my yakuake into the better half of vscode. "The shell is my IDE" is definitely true. Though Google takes up a worryingly large fraction of it. Wonder if there could be a shell tool to just dump the first stackoverflow hit for a search. bashrc highlights: https://gist.github.com/FeepingCreature/649588a2f6fa27c717bd... - ctrl-G for "directory up" - ctrl-E for "find and open in editor" (…
> Wonder if there could be a shell tool to just dump the first stackoverflow hit for a search.
There should be. I think `curl cheat.sh/programming+question` does that. There might also be a way to do that with surfraw. I just use DuckDuckGo, it almost always pops up an Stack Exchange answer in the sidebar when I search for something relevant to an SE.
Re: Vim Creep (2011)
#25Truly a great story! Reminds me of this story... Two years ago I was collaborating with a coworker. Most of our time was in his office. I would look over his shoulder as he typed. He had recently adopted a new IDE and spent considerable time configuring it and learning its features. He was very proud of how productive it made him. Then one day we collaborated in my office instead. I use plain Unix tools, all independ…
Yep, literally! Programmer's Workbench...
Re: Vim Creep (2011)
#26Nice story, but :wq ? I've mapped ZZ to :w, ZX to :x, and QQ to ZQ / :q! to quit.
In case anyone else hasn't heard of or used :x
> Like “:wq”, but write only when changes have been made.
https://til.hashrocket.com/posts/2fdb6afb66-difference-betwe...
Re: Vim Creep (2011)
#27I'm interested in using vim, but I'm not thrilled about trying to set up debuggers when an IDE has it for you. Maybe I'm over complicating it, anyone have a python based suggestion? As a note, I do not have local admin but Vim is installed already.
IMO if you want an IDE use an IDE. There are a wealth of plugins that attempt more or less successfully to bring IDE-like features to VIM, but I'm not sure I see the point personally, it'll never be as seamless as an IDE built and maintained from the ground up to do these things. I hear that many IDEs have semi-competent Vim-style editing support, so maybe that would be more to your taste. If you want to try the Vim…
Without plugins Visual Studio Code in principle is just an editor. Yet even without any plugins or language-specific support it still a better tool for development out-of-the-box than Vim or Emacs. It can quick open and search across a development tree with thousands of files with no configuration.
So as an editor for config files and small projects Vim without plugins is OK. But that basic Vim experience just does not scale. One does need plugins with Vim for anything big.
Re: Vim Creep (2011)
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
IMO if you want an IDE use an IDE. There are a wealth of plugins that attempt more or less successfully to bring IDE-like features to VIM, but I'm not sure I see the point personally, it'll never be as seamless as an IDE built and maintained from the ground up to do these things. I hear that many IDEs have semi-competent Vim-style editing support, so maybe that would be more to your taste. If you want to try the Vim…
Without plugins Visual Studio Code in principle is just an editor. Yet even without any plugins or language-specific support it still a better tool for development out-of-the-box than Vim or Emacs. It can quick open and search across a development tree with thousands of files with no configuration. So as an editor for config files and small projects Vim without plugins is OK. But that basic Vim experience just does n…
I mentioned FZF (with Rg) with IMO is a great plugin to use. With it you can explore huge projects very quickly without requiring any language specific setup. Vim also supports tags files by default which can be quite nice when browsing large projects, just run universal ctags and you can cross reference symbols for most languages.
Actually the only project-oriented Vim plugins I use are FZF, editorconfig and fugitive (git interface). The rest are just editor tweaks such as vim-unimpaired and vim-surround. And I regularly deal with very large codebases such as the Linux kernel, so at least for my use case it scales reasonably well.
Re: Vim Creep (2011)
#29I’m a Vim user and proponent so don’t get me wrong here, but is “creep” in the title intended to be a description of what Vim does, or of the Vim user/protagonist? :)
Re: Vim Creep (2011)
#30Man. This is honestly every Vim user story. How I despised Vim/Nvim in the early days of me using Vim. Now, its all past and Vim is my workflow. Browser, TUIs, etc etc you name it.
Once nvim-dap starts working well. I am not going to even install VS Code. For now, debugging is a real pain in the ass.