Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
Fascists killed something like 70-5 million people during WWII. The neocon/neoliberal wars in the middle east have killed a couple of million.
I’m pretty sure Nazi propaganda is banned on YouTube?
The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
531–540 of 981 posts
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#532I actually agree somewhat and hear me out. I think these people don't realize the juggernaut they are creating. I'm a political centrist but even I see it. Suppression of the message will only amplify it.
Prediction:
Trump will run again in 2024, no doubt. Consider the implications of that for a second. He already said he will be holding a major 2024 rally in DC during the Biden inauguration. Imagine the shadow that will cast on Biden Day 1, especially if half the population thinks the election was stolen and no outlet for that opinion (even Fox News). Coupled that with the current infighting within the DNC between progressives vs the corporate establishment elitist liberals that they accuse Biden of being, and they are essentially giving Trump all the foundation he needs to become the underground anti-establishment anti-DC-swamp anti-deep-state no-lobbyist no-China-influence anti-MSM anti-big-tech real-middle-east-peace i-already-was-president anti-hunter-biden-corruption and even anti-fox-news candidate which will go viral and make him even more of outlier then he was in 2016. Trump will use all of this and more (Hunter Biden story suppression especially) as real a boogyman to point to. The totalitarian dictator analogies will no longer hold any water when it turns out he steps down peacefully but not quietly on Nov 3rd, albeit with a huge legal fuss that fizzled out. He will aggrandize himself and play that as him being a fighter to the bitter end to his base. I don't think the GOP can primary anyone good enough to beat that version of Trump and you will see a massive blue collar class vote swap from DNC to GOP.
The writing is on the wall, eventually there will be bifurcation in Big Tech and Twitter and Youtube will become the walled garden for the left of center only and largely irreverent with conservatives with things like Parlor and BitChute and others taking the exodus. It will turn into a battle for the centrists eyeballs to come to their sides platform or straddle both. The analogy of Reddit banning toxic subs only holds if everyone is ACTUALLY on reddit, most simply left. There is already talk among conservatives of alternative Reddits and Facebooks, alternatives Netflix/Hollywood companies, alternative Fox News even. Many will say "but those will be subject to the same problems of early Twitter and Reddit, how to excise the toxic elements and keep the real discussion." I would say that can EASILY be done without going down the censorship rabbit hole by simply knowing where to stop. Get rid of the illegal stuff, the spam and pornography, and leave the rest regardless of how distasteful it is. Its an Overton Window problem, you just need slightly looser boundary condition on discourse. Stop pretending to be platforms and admit you are indeed publishers to an extent. Give users the ability to filter what they don't want to see and pledge to never bias your algorithms. The cries of the left will be largely irrelevant, they will simply tell you to "go back to Twitter if you don't like it". Once the public loses faith and trust in your company or institution due to your sacrifices in credibility in the name of censorship of one sides information, there wont be any coming back from that loss of face. I'm not saying this is a good or healthy thing for public discourse, but I do think ti will come to pass.
Its questionable whether Biden will make it all the way through his term due to age and decline, and he has already said he will step down after one term. That means the DNC will likely roll with Kamala next (If they are smart they would re-primary her, but I dont think they have the will to, the backlash and collectivist guilt will be huge). Kamala who couldn't get 2% of her parties own primary vote in 2020, up against juggernaut viral version of Trump holding mega rallies and creating an alternative media empire he has already dropped hints at.
I predict the headlines of the future will largely revolve around how the MSM and Big Tech blew it and need find a way to outreach and repair their reputations and faith to the general public - and will look back at this move as a huge mistake compounding others. The landscape will look totally different.
I welcome anyones disagreement with my prediction. I will say it hinges on Trump pivoting correctly.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#533Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why those platforms shouldn't be allowed The key word is "allowed". YouTube should be allowed to do everything they have the right to do. They have the right to stop providing all free services (unless they have contractual obligations). They have the right to ban all creators whose names start with "K". They have the right to add a 10-second delay to all page loads. They have the right to put Goatse on their homep…
> However, if they do any of the above things, the rest of us have the right to be disappointed, to think YouTube sucks, and to tell everyone else about it. > So, if they demonstrate that they have no respect for the principle of freedom of speech, we have the right to call them cowardly, un-American, probably unfair in their implementation, counterproductive even assuming their goals, etc.* They aren't just saying i…
> They aren't just saying it sucks, people and politicians are calling for a repeal of Section 230 of the CDA in a knee jerk reaction.
Politicians and citizens have the "right" to change the law.
That's how society works. If those companies don't like it, then they can pack up and move to a different country.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#534The author theorizes that this ban will inflame tensions, but I don't believe that's true. Look at Reddit's ban on toxic subreddits. They found that banning toxic subreddits reduced the toxicity in the website as a whole, and that "post-ban, hate speech by the same users was reduced by as much as 80-90 percent." [1] Reddit is just a closed system of communities; YouTube is one such community in the larger system of s…
That doesn't mean that it didn't create more rage in the rest of society...
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#535Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't see any benefit to even pseudo-anonymous political discourse on open mainstream mass-broadcast social media in a free society. If your message has a reach on the order of hundreds of thousands of people, then you should be able to stand by what you say.
Let's say the government does something bad. Say it starts an unnecessary war or something. I want people to be free to criticize that without being worried about being targeted by the government or it's supporters. It is extremely important that people are free to criticize the government, while being as immune as possible to retaliation for that criticism.
If it gets to the point where we have to fear the government retaliating against us, then that government would have probably already shutdown or blocked the popular social networks.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#536Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Yes you should. Thank you. This is exactly the basis upon which we justify the proposal to force YouTube to host content that their shareholders would prefer not to host. Or the alternative formulation, this is the basis on which we justify prohibiting YouTube from censoring political speech that their shareholders disagree with.
> force YouTube to host content that their shareholders would prefer not to host. youtube isn't the gov't. Public schools and roads are funded by taxation. If youtube is to host content that their shareholders don't want hosted, then youtube needs to be paid a portion of gov't taxes.
> then youtube needs to be paid a portion of gov't taxes.
No actually. The way society works is we can just force them to do it, via the law.
It is our right as citizens to change the law.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#537Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think YouTube should be applauded for protecting democracy. Why do you think they should be shamed for doing this?
Probably because its dangerous to democracy to silence people who question the integrity of elections. It sends the impression that there is something to hide. And people who suspect that the election was stolen will take this as confirmation of that suspicion. Since they won't be allowed to use that platform to raise their suspicions, no one will be able to respond to them to allay their suspicions. Then as time goe…
>Probably because its dangerous to democracy to silence people
YouTube is not silencing anyone. These people are free to espouse these views espouse these views anyway they please just not on YouTube's private property. The New York Times is not a danger to democracy because they refuse to publish my article on why the earth is flat.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#538The author theorizes that this ban will inflame tensions, but I don't believe that's true. Look at Reddit's ban on toxic subreddits. They found that banning toxic subreddits reduced the toxicity in the website as a whole, and that "post-ban, hate speech by the same users was reduced by as much as 80-90 percent." [1] Reddit is just a closed system of communities; YouTube is one such community in the larger system of s…
The writing is on the wall, eventually there will be bifurcation in Big Tech and Twitter and Youtube will become the walled garden for the left of center only and largely irreverent with conservatives with things like Parlor and BitChute and others taking the exodus. It will turn into a battle for the centrists eyeballs to come to their sides platform or straddle both.
The analogy of Reddit banning toxic subs only holds if everyone is ACTUALLY on reddit, most simply left. There is already talk among conservatives of alternative Reddits and Facebooks, alternatives Netflix/Hollywood companies, alternative Fox News even. Many will say "but those will be subject to the same problems of early Twitter and Reddit, how to excise the toxic elements and keep the real discussion." I would say that can EASILY be done without going down the censorship rabbit hole by simply knowing where to stop. Get rid of the illegal stuff, the spam and pornography, and leave the rest regardless of how distasteful it is. Its an Overton Window problem, you just need slightly looser boundary condition on discourse. Stop pretending to be platforms and admit you are indeed publishers to an extent. Give users the ability to filter what they don't want to see and pledge to never bias your algorithms. The cries of the left will be largely irrelevant, they will simply tell you to "go back to Twitter if you don't like it". Once the public loses faith and trust in your company or institution due to your sacrifices in credibility in the name of censorship of one sides information, there wont be any coming back from that loss of face. I'm not saying this is a good or healthy thing for public discourse, but I do think it will come to pass.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#539Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Sort of like how radical Athenian-style direct democracy doesn't work, maybe radically giving everyone near-unchecked access to nationwide broadcasting doesn't work, either. Ah yes, because Switzerland is such a hell hole.
The difference is that direct democracy doesn't scale. Switzerland has a population of 8 million; the US has a population of 330 million. Also, I'm willing to bet that Switzerland is more homogeneous than the US. And size wise, Switzerland is only larger than 9 US states. What I'm saying is that the US is huge. And diverse. It's a scaling issue.
> The difference is that direct democracy doesn't scale.
I hear that every time Switzerland is mentioned. I've yet to see a strong argument to suggest why it wouldn't scale in this day and age.
What I think doesn't scale is centralized systems like France, where all money flows to Paris and rarely any back. Switzerland on the other hand is extremely federated, to the point each canton, often smaller than average cities, have their own school system. Most tax money stays on the local level and didn't go to Bern. This independence IMHO is the critical factor for scaling that would work for moch larger countries.
As to the homogeneity: US has one language any natively born American speaks. Switzerland has 3, with a considerable political divide between the French and German spanking areas. Finally Switzerland has 20% Foreigners vs 10% in US. So again I would very much challenge you there.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#540The author mainly belittles the misinformation problem and doesn't get at all that we're in real trouble here. The internet is being flooded with wrong information and it gets increasingly harder for people to tell truth from fiction. Something _has to_ be done, YT can't sit and just watch it's Plattform be used to destroy democracy.