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The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

taibbi.substack.com

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Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#401

Post by lawnchair_larry »

phailhaus wrote: post #303

The author theorizes that this ban will inflame tensions, but I don't believe that's true. Look at Reddit's ban on toxic subreddits. They found that banning toxic subreddits reduced the toxicity in the website as a whole, and that "post-ban, hate speech by the same users was reduced by as much as 80-90 percent." [1] Reddit is just a closed system of communities; YouTube is one such community in the larger system of s…

This in no way compares to what reddit is doing. There is nothing “toxic” or hateful about what they have already been applying this ban to. They have already been removing videos that are not partisan and not fake news. Merely being intellectually curious or examining various issues related to the election, even if they ultimately do not conclude that there was fraud, are being removed. It’s fucking ridiculous.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#404

Post by lawnchair_larry »

ehsankia wrote: post #384
jessah wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody understands that. But reach is taken from them. That's a extremely important effect. Way more important than the radicalisation, because if these people seek out new platforms to radicalize them self, they would likely have done so in every case. The danger of radicalizing a bigger part of the population is what is at stake here.

There are 3 scenarios: 1. Someone who is radicalized digging deeper 2. Someone who is radicalized changing their mind 3. Someone who is not radicalized getting radicalized #1 is bound to happen, #2 has no chance of happening, so at this point, preventing #3 is the way to go. Keeping these already radicalized people on Youtube achieves nothing. On the other hand, keeping them on Youtube gives these them a huge platfor…

How is newsmax “radicalized”?

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#405

Post by konjin »

phailhaus wrote: post #303

The author theorizes that this ban will inflame tensions, but I don't believe that's true. Look at Reddit's ban on toxic subreddits. They found that banning toxic subreddits reduced the toxicity in the website as a whole, and that "post-ban, hate speech by the same users was reduced by as much as 80-90 percent." [1] Reddit is just a closed system of communities; YouTube is one such community in the larger system of s…

And of course they use a measure of toxic which means "is a republican".

Go on the front page of reddit and count how many posts from subs like /r/insanepoeplefacebook, /r/publicfreakout, /r/idiotsincars, /r/trashy, and the like there are, right now it's at 15/25. On most days I've done this is close to 20/25. Today there are 5 posts about the TX appeal not being heard by the SC which has pushed some of the usual garbage off the front page.

5 years ago there were none (or maybe one if you squint hard enough): https://web.archive.org/web/20151212085428/https://www.reddi...

Reddit has become a more mean-spirited place the more subs have been banned, and every time the increase in vitriol is used as an excuse to run the next set of bans. People cheer this on until they get banned and then act surprised it happened.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#406

Post by mensetmanusman »

charonn0 wrote: post #192
pmcollins wrote: post #63

for folks with a strong opinion on this, how do you square your opinion on youtube censorship with your opinion on net neutrality? youtube censorship is okay but isp censorship is bad? i have multiple isps available to me without any change to the quality of my life, but no comparable alternative to youtube.

Net neutrality isn't about censoring ISPs, though.

It is from the point of view of ISPs. E.g. they are being censored from using their bandwidth as they desire.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#407

Post by twblalock »

phailhaus wrote: post #303

The author theorizes that this ban will inflame tensions, but I don't believe that's true. Look at Reddit's ban on toxic subreddits. They found that banning toxic subreddits reduced the toxicity in the website as a whole, and that "post-ban, hate speech by the same users was reduced by as much as 80-90 percent." [1] Reddit is just a closed system of communities; YouTube is one such community in the larger system of s…

Participants in controversial discourse have long said that the system wants to silence them -- banning such discourse actually makes that true.

In the past, they said they were censored and there was a conspiracy against them, and we could all say, no there isn't, you are active on major online platforms and nobody is suppressing you. Now we can't say that anymore. Not only has the suppression they falsely alleged actually started to happen, companies are even proud to publicly announce that they are part of it.

This is a total backfire because it makes it even harder to change people's minds by confirming what conspiracy theorists suspected all along. Online platforms have fallen into the trap of making one of the main assertions of online far right nonsense actually become true. It is a massive own goal.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#408

Post by effingwewt »

ehsankia wrote: post #391
effingwewt wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this argument all the time. Sweeping opinions you don't like under the rug doesn't make them go away. People will still hold the same opinions they will just do so where you can't hear them. I prefer the racist I can see. This pushes them underground and radicalizes them. You mentioned reddit. Do you remember what voat became when reddit closed down subs? That hate didn't go away it just moved and concentrated…

You are trying to intentionally muddy the waters here. Vaccines, masks and who won the election are not "sweeping opinions you don't like". People have actually died due to the anti-vaxx movement, leading to +50% Measle deaths in 2019. These are hard facts and these decisions are a matter of life or death. No one is blocking opinions. Trump has failed to prove election fraud in over 50 cases so far, and the safe harb…

Im not intentionally muddying anything he mentioned reddit. That was a ban of hate speech specifically, not anything to do with masks, elections, or anything you mentioned.

I agree with others about radicalization and slowing the spread of misinformation but it's a fine line to walk and throwing around reddits bullshit like it will work for real life scenarios isnt going to help anything.

Deplatforming legitimizes and empowers fringe groups and that's not something we need to be doing.

As for your rants about trump etc I agree they just had no basis in my and parents arguments.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#409

Post by zucker42 »

seppin wrote: post #400
olefoo wrote: post #150

This is all the result of confusing 1st amendment rights with the right to access the audience that gathers at a particular URL. What Taibbi is asking for is that the guy who tells you that drinking rat poison is good for you should be allowed an audience and that even putting a warning alongside the video would be an infringement on his rights. Looking at the comments here I have to conclude that HN is no longer on…

> Taibbi Also this guy is not the same author some might have known a few years ago, he himself has been relegated to the regressive left Glenn Greenwald corner of the internet. Take his narrative with the proper grain of salt.

Why do you consider them part of the "regressive left"? Is it because you think they've behaved unethically, or are they hopelessly biased, or do you just disagree with them, or some other reason?

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#410

Post by lawnchair_larry »

Bud wrote: post #355
wkjenjkwenf wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it reduced tensions on reddit , but what about tensions everywhere else? The author doesn't care about how toxic Youtube is, he cares how toxic the US is. Pushing these radicals onto radical websites only further radicalizes them. That should be an axiomatic fact, yet nobody seems to understand it.

The author doesn't care about anything other than making a few cheap dollars with mendacious lies.

This is obviously incorrect
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