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Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

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Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#211

Post by ericd »

clouddrover wrote: post #172
ericd wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, the Model S is a large family sedan, that's why it's a bit absurd for it to win. My point was that a sports car from Porsche should be winning, and not by a little. That video is comparing the Turbo S (the $185k version of the Taycan) to the $92k version of the Model S. The $140k version is significantly faster, let alone the 2021 Roadster. The ID.3 seems to have a stated range of ~200 miles?

Performance is more than just drag racing. The Taycan out performs the Model S on track as well. It's just a better car and, yes, that costs money. > The ID.3 seems to have a stated range of ~200 miles? There are 3 usable battery sizes for 3 different range figures: 48kWh (205 miles WLTP), 58kWh (261 miles), and 77kWh (342 miles).

Alright, how much range do you get in an ID.3 that’s the same price as the base Model 3?

EDIT: Also, WLTP vs. EPA range isn't apples to apples, EPA is something like 10-20% more conservative, and that's what Tesla quotes, at least on their US site. I can't seem to find EPA range results for ID.3, maybe because it's not available in the US yet? And to be clear, I'm really happy that VW appears to be pushing into EVs in a bigger way than most of the big car companies. I wish they all would. But I think they're a ways from taking the limelight.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#212

Post by wpietri »

analog31 wrote: post #201
wpietri wrote: post #45

One book I found really interesting on this theme is "Confronting Managerialism: How the Business Elite and Their Schools Threw Our Lives Out of Balance": https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A76WZ96/ Core to their point is that managers have basically become a caste. They define managerialism as "what occurs when a special group, called management, ensconces itself systemically in an organization and deprives owners and emp…

Something interesting has struck me about this thread. In almost every HN thread about higher education, there is a very strong if not prevailing view, that advanced degrees are primarily a form of empty credentialing or signaling. Yet a search for those terms in this thread yields almost no hits. I wonder if what's missing here is a deeper dive into what MBA's actually learn in business school, if anything. Sure, th…

> I wonder if what's missing here is a deeper dive into what MBA's actually learn in business school, if anything.

A friend with an aerospace engineering degree said there was only one thing in his MBA program that he couldn't have figured out with a little thought. That was the principle of comparative advantage. He said what made it worth it was the great network that he built.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#213

Post by bhewes »

bhewes wrote: post #135

Maybe it is just Oklahoma and New Mexico, but most of the MBAs I work with have engineering or other technical backgrounds. Endless MBA bashing is like making fun of liberal arts students half worth a damn do both anyways.

haha a downvote. Seriously been on here since 2009 getting tired of the thought police. At least responded with some kind of point then the normal business school bashing that happens on this site.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#214

Post by bhewes »

bhewes wrote: post #213
bhewes wrote: post #135

Maybe it is just Oklahoma and New Mexico, but most of the MBAs I work with have engineering or other technical backgrounds. Endless MBA bashing is like making fun of liberal arts students half worth a damn do both anyways.

haha a downvote. Seriously been on here since 2009 getting tired of the thought police. At least responded with some kind of point then the normal business school bashing that happens on this site.

haha again point proven. Thanks for that! There are 244 more points to go so hit away.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#216

Post by mandeepj »

bsder wrote: post #179
mhaberl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is in a very specific situation, he is the founder and the CEO and has a lot of money to burn. He wants to do big things and he can do them. A lot of companies have stock holders who expect some return every year without risking too much. As a society we sure would be better off if had more Elon Musk type company leaders, but for that too happen we would need more exceptional people like him (not going to happen)…

> As a society we sure would be better off if had more Elon Musk type company leaders Maybe, but good ol' Elon would be dead and gone if the US Federal Government hadn't come through with a contract that bailed him out. He was literally begging people like Bezos to lend him money because he couldn't make payroll. Survivor bias is a thing.

You sure about Bezos here? or was he Larry Page? I know Musk is friends with Page. Source - Musk's biography

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#217

Post by edmundsauto »

lazyjones wrote: post #204
orky56 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The allure of Tesla is that their DNA and proposed vision is all-electric performance without compromise. They've forgone the luxury market and gone all-in with performance. The 3, Y, and even X rely on the nostalgia of the Roadster and soon the S. Despite the fanfare of the S, Tesla hasn't been able to convince the average consumer with multiple cars to own multiple Teslas nor the PR firm that their other models des…

Tesla isn't about performance, that's just a by-product of making EV suitable for everyday use. Teslas are about adequate range (400+ Km, 250+ miles), fast charging and a charging network that enables long-distance journeys, as well as getting as close to self-driving as possible. That's why 1 million or so people chose a Tesla over other EV and gasoline cars.

How do you know the reasons why someone chose a Tesla?

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#218

Post by clouddrover »

ericd wrote: post #211
clouddrover wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Performance is more than just drag racing. The Taycan out performs the Model S on track as well. It's just a better car and, yes, that costs money. > The ID.3 seems to have a stated range of ~200 miles? There are 3 usable battery sizes for 3 different range figures: 48kWh (205 miles WLTP), 58kWh (261 miles), and 77kWh (342 miles).

Alright, how much range do you get in an ID.3 that’s the same price as the base Model 3? EDIT: Also, WLTP vs. EPA range isn't apples to apples, EPA is something like 10-20% more conservative, and that's what Tesla quotes, at least on their US site. I can't seem to find EPA range results for ID.3, maybe because it's not available in the US yet? And to be clear, I'm really happy that VW appears to be pushing into EVs i…

> Alright, how much range do you get in an ID.3 that’s the same price as the base Model 3?

340 miles.

> that's what Tesla quotes, at least on their US site

Tesla quotes WLTP ranges on their European sites.

> But I think they're a ways from taking the limelight.

Renault and VW BEVs outsell Tesla in Europe. The limelight has nothing to do with it. It's just business.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#219

Post by bamboozled »

nbardy wrote: post #46
mhaberl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is in a very specific situation, he is the founder and the CEO and has a lot of money to burn. He wants to do big things and he can do them. A lot of companies have stock holders who expect some return every year without risking too much. As a society we sure would be better off if had more Elon Musk type company leaders, but for that too happen we would need more exceptional people like him (not going to happen)…

Our society has plenty of Elon Musks. Their being snuffed out by a academic system designed to churn out people can repeat "the correct answer". Heterodox thinking is a liability not an asset in Academia now. Along with the fact that most people don't even have the option to take risk with the massive increase of cost of housing. Our society has been designed to squeeze out cash flow and it's smothering our creatives…

I think the other thing is retirement, I'd live a much more radical existence and take business risks if I didn't have to worry about being homeless when I'm 60 if things don't work out.

Maybe these things are related because the CEO too has the same concerns.

We don't live in a society that favors innovation, we live in a society that's cutthroat.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#220

Post by ericd »

clouddrover wrote: post #218
ericd wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright, how much range do you get in an ID.3 that’s the same price as the base Model 3? EDIT: Also, WLTP vs. EPA range isn't apples to apples, EPA is something like 10-20% more conservative, and that's what Tesla quotes, at least on their US site. I can't seem to find EPA range results for ID.3, maybe because it's not available in the US yet? And to be clear, I'm really happy that VW appears to be pushing into EVs i…

> Alright, how much range do you get in an ID.3 that’s the same price as the base Model 3? 340 miles. > that's what Tesla quotes, at least on their US site Tesla quotes WLTP ranges on their European sites. > But I think they're a ways from taking the limelight. Renault and VW BEVs outsell Tesla in Europe. The limelight has nothing to do with it. It's just business.

Ah nice, sounds like they're doing quite well, then! Looks like Model 3s are significantly more expensive in Europe than in the US (the base model in France is 51k Euros/61k USD vs $38k USD in the US, before tax rebates, which can knock off a significant chunk of it). Which is also part of why the quoted prices for the ID.3 seem so expensive to us in the US (49k Euros/59k USD for the 340 mile version in France). That's a lot to pay for either of those cars.
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