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Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

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Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#181

Post by yowlingcat »

haolez wrote: post #13

I, for one, sometimes miss the knowledge that an MBA might give me. I'm a technical CTO and I have some trouble with long term planning, budget, managing people, etc.

> I, for one, sometimes miss the knowledge that an MBA might give me. I'm a technical CTO and I have some trouble with long term planning, budget, managing people, etc.

Is it your first time? If so, you would probably have similar growing pains MBA or not. Being a business conversant technical CTO is the kind of thing you only get good at by doing it.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#182

Post by ska »

nbardy wrote: post #46
mhaberl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is in a very specific situation, he is the founder and the CEO and has a lot of money to burn. He wants to do big things and he can do them. A lot of companies have stock holders who expect some return every year without risking too much. As a society we sure would be better off if had more Elon Musk type company leaders, but for that too happen we would need more exceptional people like him (not going to happen)…

Our society has plenty of Elon Musks. Their being snuffed out by a academic system designed to churn out people can repeat "the correct answer". Heterodox thinking is a liability not an asset in Academia now. Along with the fact that most people don't even have the option to take risk with the massive increase of cost of housing. Our society has been designed to squeeze out cash flow and it's smothering our creatives…

> being snuffed out by a academic system designed to churn out

People have been making this argument since the 1800s, but it doesn't seem to have much solid evidence.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#183

Post by totololo »

bsder wrote: post #179
mhaberl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is in a very specific situation, he is the founder and the CEO and has a lot of money to burn. He wants to do big things and he can do them. A lot of companies have stock holders who expect some return every year without risking too much. As a society we sure would be better off if had more Elon Musk type company leaders, but for that too happen we would need more exceptional people like him (not going to happen)…

> As a society we sure would be better off if had more Elon Musk type company leaders Maybe, but good ol' Elon would be dead and gone if the US Federal Government hadn't come through with a contract that bailed him out. He was literally begging people like Bezos to lend him money because he couldn't make payroll. Survivor bias is a thing.

When?

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#184

Post by stevievee »

He is more MBA than engineer at this point. Just because he doesn't have the letters doesn't mean he isn't deploying the knowledge and approach of an MBA.

His companies have successfully deployed plenty of MBA-style strategies and their "creative" financing/PR indicates this. I'm not disagreeing with the premise of his argument (I actually agree to an extent) but using his public voice to downplay the expertise of a large group of people is... odd. Fundamentally, his businesses have plenty of weak spots and maybe criticizing the credentials of those who criticize his businesses is a valid strategy?

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#185

Post by totololo »

gopalv wrote: post #26
inglor_cz wrote: post #2

He is onto something there. Bean counting is useful and companies cannot survive without good cashflow, but it should not become Mission A of the company, or engineering (and other) talent will look elsewhere. If one company's de facto mission statement is "We want to grow our market by 8.2 per cent and give our bosses higher Christmas bonuses" and another one comes and says "Guys, we want to fly to fscking Mars!", c…

> but it should not become Mission A of the company, or engineering (and other) talent will look elsewhere. There's 3 things that I judge an employer by 1) Sector the company is in (Space, electric cars - Yay) 2) Revenue/Growth of the company (pie grows, does your share?) 3) Company culture (that's catch-all, but if you want a negative see that "don't hire the hot girl" guy) A lot of ways I care more about the sector…

> "don't hire the hot girl" guy Is that a reference? Can you point me to it?

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#186

Post by sagarm »

orky56 wrote: post #51
mathattack wrote: post #11

It’s a matter of phase of company. MBAs are better at measuring and capturing value. Weaker at creating it. Therefore the non-MBA expert outperforms in the growth phase, though it takes a different mindset for mature companies.

Spot on. MBA's aren't meant for 0 to 1. They're meant to optimize and sustain business models with the foundation of innovation and revolutionary ideas. Companies that only stick to one or the other are doomed, or require their industry to be that much more technical or business focused.

I would say MBAs are excellent at extracting value, rather than sustaining value generation. Actually producing value is clearly not a priority in MBA culture.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#187

Post by sg47 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #2

He is onto something there. Bean counting is useful and companies cannot survive without good cashflow, but it should not become Mission A of the company, or engineering (and other) talent will look elsewhere. If one company's de facto mission statement is "We want to grow our market by 8.2 per cent and give our bosses higher Christmas bonuses" and another one comes and says "Guys, we want to fly to fscking Mars!", c…

Sounds like people at my company. We are building a cloud product but there's a ruthless crack down on cloud costs (2 30-minute meetings involving some of the most highly paid people in the company) with the result that most things go untested. Customers find those issues and decide not to use the product. Management wonders why we can't get traction and grow the business. There are other reasons too but there's a clear lack of common sense. I lost 2 weeks of valuable work to one of these 'crack downs'.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#188

Post by bumby »

nine_zeros wrote: post #176
bumby wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the American liberal arts system Related to your second and third points, I think there is at least some case that the U.S. has moved away from the idea of liberal arts schooling towards being more vocationally minded. The intent, going back as far as the mid-1800s with the Morrill Act, was specifically intended to help serve a new growing economy. If you ask, I bet more people look at college as a way to get a job…

Contributing to culture ship has long sailed away with the extreme capitalistic society of ours. If there was any kind of cushion (specifically with healthcare), non-vocational education would make sense. But with our current society, life would be futile without real world white collar skills.

Could you refine a bit more what you mean by “extreme capitalistic society”?

At first blush, I would guess we have a slightly less capitalistic society than, say 200 years ago, but a more industrialized, consumeristic society.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#189

Post by blackrock »

wongarsu wrote: post #89
mhaberl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is in a very specific situation, he is the founder and the CEO and has a lot of money to burn. He wants to do big things and he can do them. A lot of companies have stock holders who expect some return every year without risking too much. As a society we sure would be better off if had more Elon Musk type company leaders, but for that too happen we would need more exceptional people like him (not going to happen)…

I would invest in SpaceX in a heartbeat if I could. The financial markets have both very low risk investment options (e.g. government bonds) and very high risk investments (e.g. options), and both ends are attractive to a range of investors. I would agree that you can't pivot a company like Microsoft to a high-risk strategy with uncertain payoff; their existing shareholders would rebel. But if you have this strategy…

Maybe SpaceX should raise a cryptocurrency ICO?

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#190

Post by nine_zeros »

bumby wrote: post #188
nine_zeros wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contributing to culture ship has long sailed away with the extreme capitalistic society of ours. If there was any kind of cushion (specifically with healthcare), non-vocational education would make sense. But with our current society, life would be futile without real world white collar skills.

Could you refine a bit more what you mean by “extreme capitalistic society”? At first blush, I would guess we have a slightly less capitalistic society than, say 200 years ago, but a more industrialized, consumeristic society.

Extreme capitalism is a society where the risk taken is not just encouraged, it's a necessity.

Ironically, in such societies, people will latch on to anything that provides stability. For example, vocational degree that signals high skills or petitioning for NIMBY laws.

The reason people latch on to these is simple. There is too much to lose. The crash is too deep. If one loses a job, they lose healthcare. Not because of shortages like 200 years ago, but because of the extreme capitalism taking over healthcare, incentivizing providers and insurance companies to lobby for shitty laws instead of true competition.

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