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The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

taibbi.substack.com

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Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#71

Post by hhmc »

enchiridion wrote: post #31
gabereiser wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube can choose to keep or delete any content on their platform regardless of truth/free speech/or not. It's in the EULA. You want free speech, go outside and yell. No one is stopping anyone from free speech. What Google is doing is cleaning up content on their service according to their EULA. If you disagree with the EULA, you can gladly go use another service. I will add, targeting a specific genre of videos loo…

This is a non sequitur. Free speech is an ideal. We would like google to preserve free speech, even though they are not legally obligated to per the Constitution. If their EULA does not uphold that ideal, then they should change it, not compromise the ideal.

> Free speech is an ideal. We would like google to preserve free speech

Is this self evident? Specifically google, or all and any private platforms? It's not obvious to me that every private entity should hold the ideal of free speech -- particularly a version of free speech that means something different than protection from persecution by the state.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#72

Post by krapp »

enchiridion wrote: post #31
gabereiser wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube can choose to keep or delete any content on their platform regardless of truth/free speech/or not. It's in the EULA. You want free speech, go outside and yell. No one is stopping anyone from free speech. What Google is doing is cleaning up content on their service according to their EULA. If you disagree with the EULA, you can gladly go use another service. I will add, targeting a specific genre of videos loo…

This is a non sequitur. Free speech is an ideal. We would like google to preserve free speech, even though they are not legally obligated to per the Constitution. If their EULA does not uphold that ideal, then they should change it, not compromise the ideal.

But your desire for Google to host certain kinds of speech against their will doesn't supersede Google's own right to decide otherwise on their own platform.

They have their own free speech rights, as well as free association and the rights of free enterprise.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#73

Post by AnimalMuppet »

JPKab wrote: post #36
Daishiman wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We in fact already do that and nobody bats an eye. People are not intimate with the details of most government bureaucracies, they are not expected to be, and they're no expected to grasp such details in a way that they can make informed decisions. And frankly that is absolutely correct. We believe in democracy to be the best system despite its flaws, and one of its flaws is that it's evident that most people have no…

Authoritarians always justify silencing speech for the greater good. You can reject lies with counters to those lies, or do it your way, and end democracy.

Eloquent, but... YouTube isn't an authoritarian (over anything except their own platform), and their policy, whatever it is, isn't going to "end democracy".

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#74

Post by jstgord »

This is a solved problem : don't BAN, but FLAG conspiracy theories and dangerous memes with a notice citing links to facts.

I've enjoyed the somewhat balanced weekly covid discussions of youtuber Dr Chris Martenson / PeakProsperity. He generally backs up his opinions with links to science studies and data, but has been censored by youtube for mentioning controversially that "HCQ has some efficacy as a prophylactic before exposure to Covid". ( He has also covered topics such as less severe Covid outcome for those taking Vitamin-D, for which there now seems to be a lot of evidence... yet why are we not seeing governments recommend and supply it more widely ? )

Are we still able to rationally discuss on youtube topics such as : Did SARS-CoV2/Covid originate elsewhere than at the seafood market in Wuhan [ there are a handful of data with earlier cases in distant locales ] ?

Are we allowed to make videos discussing the cause of collapse of WTC building 7 on 911 ? Engineering Professor Leroy Hulseys structural study at Fairbanks University argues that the canonical explanation of fire damage leading to failure of a weak point followed by cascading collapse is 'unlikely'.

Will we be able to share videos that say fracking for oil produces so much extra methane as to render the proponents criminally liable for the acceleration of global warming ?

Will we be able to discuss on youtube.com whether google.com should pay more tax than they currently do ? What body decides this ?

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#75

Post by ardy42 »

enchiridion wrote: post #31
gabereiser wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube can choose to keep or delete any content on their platform regardless of truth/free speech/or not. It's in the EULA. You want free speech, go outside and yell. No one is stopping anyone from free speech. What Google is doing is cleaning up content on their service according to their EULA. If you disagree with the EULA, you can gladly go use another service. I will add, targeting a specific genre of videos loo…

This is a non sequitur. Free speech is an ideal. We would like google to preserve free speech, even though they are not legally obligated to per the Constitution. If their EULA does not uphold that ideal, then they should change it, not compromise the ideal.

> This is a non sequitur. Free speech is an ideal. We would like google to preserve free speech, even though they are not legally obligated to per the Constitution. If their EULA does not uphold that ideal, then they should change it, not compromise the ideal.

I would like to uphold that ideal by putting a political bumper sticker on your car. Can you give me your address so I can send it to you?

If you don't have a car, I can send you a sign to put in your window or a t-shirt with a slogan for you to wear.

I appreciate your cooperation in upholding this important ideal.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#77

Post by vladTheInhaler »

katmannthree wrote: post #46
JPKab wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have the right to do it, and it will make the world worse off. Taibbi always has had a great guy instinct for normal Americans and how they react to elite condescension, and he's right here. My idiot brother got twice as radicalized when they kicked Alex Jones's crazy ass off YouTube. It made people feel better and more morally superior, especially employees. It hurt my brother. Now when he watches that asshole,…

Consider a utilitarian point of view. This is not about grounding people who already went off the deep end, it's about reducing the number of people who get radicalized. I think from that perspective deplatforming radicals is both ethical and effective.

I don't understand why you are being downvoted. People may not agree with the sentiment, but it seems salient and reasonably stated.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#79

Post by nprz »

Spartan-S63 wrote: post #56
nprz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think payment processors and ISPs should be able to deny service to customers for any arbitrary reason as well?

Isn't that part of what's critical to have a free market? Sure, there are market inefficiencies when you get to the level that trusts and monopolies exist, don't get me wrong. Rather than patch the symptoms of the problem, attack the root cause: If companies are acting anticompetitively, stimulate competition in the marketplace. If companies are allowed to make arbitrary decisions (which they should in a free-enough…

In a theoretical world, sure. In reality it is government actors that are twisting the arms' of tech companies to remove unapproved speech. So I'm not so sure a government controlled ISP/payment processor/video platform (something like China?) would really fix the situation.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#80

Post by dj_gitmo »

williamsmj wrote: post #76

If this is your introduction to Matt Taibbi, it's worth knowing he has a dog in the race when it comes to "cancel culture": https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/the-two-expat-bros-wh... .

Taibbi's partner at the time posted a response to these allegations. https://exiledonline.com/about-those-exile-smears/

A brief excerpt from Ames' piece:

"How do you respond to something so blatantly dishonest? A number of media contacts have told me that Lally shopped this hit piece around to multiple publications, but it was rejected for this very reason."

It's worth noting that the women who worked for the Exiled are still around, and when this came out they confirmed that the events depicted in the Exiled book were satirical.

This was an attempt to hijack the #metoo movement without anyone actually making an accusation.

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