When did hackers go from celebrating the freedom of information on the internet to acting as apologists for authoritarian censorship by near-monopolistic corporations? When they all started working for them?
The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
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Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#42Spreading these lies about voting is much worse and more dangerous than the classic example of yelling FIRE in a crowded theater. YouTube has every right, and a deep responsibility to cut this kind of bullshit off at every turn.
Strict banning of speech about the electoral controversy is more dangerous than the classic example of yelling FIRE in a crowded theater.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#43Then what? Allowing false information to fester is wrong, censorship is wrong. The way forward is to ban recommendation algorithms and go back to personal (as in, from other humans you know) recommendation systems.
> Allowing false information to fester is wrong...
That sounds good, but it is not true. If the CEO of YouTube was a committed Hindi the public would demand that he overlook Buddhist/Muslim/Christian/Atheist content on his platform. Tolerance of people we truly believe to be wrong is a key value that needs to be preserved.
The sort of people who talk about "false information" in their policies tend to be running more authoritarian style countries - they don't actually know what is true and false, but they do know what they want to hear to promote stasis in leadership.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#44If you reject the idea that people are intelligent enough to think about politics for themselves then you reject the idea that they're intelligent enough to govern themselves. Democracy and free speech are intrinsically linked.
YouTube can choose to keep or delete any content on their platform regardless of truth/free speech/or not. It's in the EULA. You want free speech, go outside and yell. No one is stopping anyone from free speech. What Google is doing is cleaning up content on their service according to their EULA. If you disagree with the EULA, you can gladly go use another service. I will add, targeting a specific genre of videos loo…
If youtube wants to remove stuff they can, but they should start with removing the values they state on their about page. You can't say you give everyone a voice and then start blanket silencing people.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#45"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -Isaac Asimov or more to the point "Reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Colbert You're not entitled to be heard.…
> Reality has a well-known liberal bias Except when it comes to nuclear, GMO, gender science, nature vs nurture, I'm sure there are other things I'm not remembering right now.
Actually, reality is quite conservative, as in evolutionary theory. Our wishes have a liberal bias.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
YouTube can choose to keep or delete any content on their platform regardless of truth/free speech/or not. It's in the EULA. You want free speech, go outside and yell. No one is stopping anyone from free speech. What Google is doing is cleaning up content on their service according to their EULA. If you disagree with the EULA, you can gladly go use another service. I will add, targeting a specific genre of videos loo…
They have the right to do it, and it will make the world worse off. Taibbi always has had a great guy instinct for normal Americans and how they react to elite condescension, and he's right here. My idiot brother got twice as radicalized when they kicked Alex Jones's crazy ass off YouTube. It made people feel better and more morally superior, especially employees. It hurt my brother. Now when he watches that asshole,…
Consider a utilitarian point of view. This is not about grounding people who already went off the deep end, it's about reducing the number of people who get radicalized. I think from that perspective deplatforming radicals is both ethical and effective.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#47It is amazing to me that there are so many people, smart people even, that are adamant that we shouldn't have free speech in society.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#48If you reject the idea that people are intelligent enough to think about politics for themselves then you reject the idea that they're intelligent enough to govern themselves. Democracy and free speech are intrinsically linked.
>Democracy and free speech are intrinsically linked.
Yes but the only "free speech" that's realistically able to be implemented is freedom of speech without fear of the government putting you jail for criticizing the government.
The other idealism of free speech implemented by commercial businesses is not possible because we (the collective "we") won't allow it to happen.
There is no broadcasting medium (including websites) in any country that doesn't have interference and pressure to remove/ban content via consumer boycotts, advertiser influence, subscribers, business' self-discretion, or decrees from government officials.
The above list of actors in society is the collective "we" that makes absolute free speech an unattainable goal. There is no business with an infinite bank account that can withstand all outside pressures to censor information. Apple has $200 billion in the bank and yet they bowed to China pressure to remove podcasts that supported Hong Kong.
If a successful/influential giant like Apple can't implement absolute free speech, what's the proposed alternative corporate structure that can do it? Nobody ever lays out a concrete plan that makes free speech possible.
[I don't mind the downvotes but I would really appreciate some replies with constructive comments explaining how commercial businesses can realistically implement free speech.]
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#49These types of articles are always insane to me. YouTube is a private company. They're pretty much allowed to moderate the content on their platform in an arbitrary way. I would argue that this is a good thing. We can't have it both ways, but we want it both ways. We want a non-government controlled way to communicate, but we want to mandate that they're liable to uphold the same First Amendment protections that the…
Do you think payment processors and ISPs should be able to deny service to customers for any arbitrary reason as well?
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#50A phrase that comes to mind: Make Orwell Fiction Again