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Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

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Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#61

Post by nashashmi »

What’s the point of an MBA?

Asking anyone this question who pursues the degree or has pursued the degree or insists on its value, often gives a non-answer. Like the following:

* it helps with networking.

* it helps with promotion.

* it helps with advancement in career.

* it helps with your resume.

Boiling it down, “I can show off better and tout an imaginary quality”.

If I was a person who was self employed or running my own company, how will an mba HELP ME SPECIFICALLY? No one can give me an answer.

I concluded to that it can’t help. It is like a dark personality trait. One that helps you relative to the people around you but doesn’t help the company, in the long run.

As an engineer, I think we need something else. Masters in engineering administration. Teaching engineers how to deal with bs that takes 5 years of career to figure out.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#62

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

_jal wrote: post #6

Finally, he says something I can agree with. MBAs are for optimizing stable firms. They're walking death for startups, I personally have seen it happen.

Even outside of startups, they can be detrimental to brands. After seeing what's happened to TravisCI, Sencha and QlikTech, I can only assume that the private equity firms that bought them are rife with MBAs. And the story is the same, buy the company, cut engineering, murder new development, choke support and off-short what survives and then eat off of the trapped subscribers. They don't create value, they don't make a better product, all they do is stagnant the company while eating off of the lowered OpEx.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#63

Post by nashashmi »

inglor_cz wrote: post #2

He is onto something there. Bean counting is useful and companies cannot survive without good cashflow, but it should not become Mission A of the company, or engineering (and other) talent will look elsewhere. If one company's de facto mission statement is "We want to grow our market by 8.2 per cent and give our bosses higher Christmas bonuses" and another one comes and says "Guys, we want to fly to fscking Mars!", c…

Bean counting is not mba work. It is cfo work. Let’s not mix the two. And there is no one more disconnected from the work of the business than the cfo.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#64

Post by amznthrwaway »

cameldrv wrote: post #34
jedberg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He also indicated his 2 companies Tesla and SpaceX are the last - automotive and aerospace companies in California, a state that was once a leader. Except it isn't true. Other companies still make rockets in SoCal. For example Areojet Rocketdyne is still headquartered in El Segundo (next to LAX). They made the main engine for the Space Shuttle and are currently still making it for the upcoming SLS.

Yeah and Relativity and the Spaceship Company and several others. There is a huge talent base in SoCal, between LA/Long Beach and Mojave.

Elon Musk is Donald Trump for nerds.

He says things that are false, but that nerds want to be true.

He doesn't care that he lies. His followers don't care that he lies. He is shameless. He is vindictive. He is self-aggrandizing. He takes credit for all wins around his companies. He denies that the failures even exist.

It's sad that people still respect him. He's a joke.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#65

Post by _Microft »

blendergeek wrote: post #49
Someone1234 wrote: post #35

Musk isn't purely a self-made success story. He was born into emerald mines, got a first class education, and used that inherited wealth to start companies, sell, and then buy stakes in growing companies other people founded (inc. Tesla, incidentally). So is the lesson here to be born rich rather than try to get an education? Or just that when you are born rich education is optional? It is notable that the other foun…

> and used that inherited wealth to buy stakes in growing companies other people founded (inc. Tesla, incidentally). His first success was x.com. This was bought by confinity; this led to the creation of Paypal. Who did Musk buy x.com from? When Musk "bought his way into" Tesla, he used his X.com/PayPal money, not the emerald money (which he received little of). Musk also founded SpaceX using his X.com/PayPal. Who do…

Their first success was a company called Zip2 that the brothers Musk founded and later sold to Compaq .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip2

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#66

Post by kipchak »

Someone1234 wrote: post #50
sixQuarks wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where you’re getting your info from. Musk and his brother started and sold zip2 for millions, while living a very frugal existence. He used that money to start x.com, which merged with PayPal, sold to eBay. He used that money to start SpaceX and invest in Tesla.

The Musk's families wealth is common knowledge and widely reported[0][1][2]. But more to the point Elon and Kimbal's dad funded Zip2, which completely undercuts your point. > In Ashlee Vance's biography of Elon Musk, it is claimed that the Musks' father, Errol Musk, provided them with US$28,000 during this time, but Elon Musk later denied this. He later clarified that his dad provided around 10% of US$200,000 as part…

That last bit seems to come from a tweet by Musk, that would be 10% of $200,000 or $20,000 versus the $28,000 in the biography.

[1] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1211064937004589056

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#67

Post by jnwatson »

cogman10 wrote: post #42
johntb86 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even for stable firms they can be death. "Lights Out: Pride, Delusion, and the Fall of General Electric" makes the case that the MBA mindset (exemplified by Jeff Immelt) of focusing on finances and acquisitions while ignoring the actual products has been leading to the downfall of GE.

MBAs seem to just be bad for tech companies. It's like they want to turn every business into an automotive business completely missing the point that car design is practically unchanged in the last 50 years. You can see just how terrible these companies are at adopting change by their pathetic attempts at getting EVs up and running. Tech requires constant change and innovation to be successful. Companies who primaril…

I've definitely worked for medium-sized tech companies that could use an MBA or 3. Once there are more than 3 tiers of employees, managers can't hero their way to effectiveness.

Organizational management is important, hard, and has decades of study behind it.

Finance is also important. My former employer has never made a profit in the seven years since IPO, and clever financing means that it is still a going concern.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#68

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

nbardy wrote: post #46
mhaberl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is in a very specific situation, he is the founder and the CEO and has a lot of money to burn. He wants to do big things and he can do them. A lot of companies have stock holders who expect some return every year without risking too much. As a society we sure would be better off if had more Elon Musk type company leaders, but for that too happen we would need more exceptional people like him (not going to happen)…

Our society has plenty of Elon Musks. Their being snuffed out by a academic system designed to churn out people can repeat "the correct answer". Heterodox thinking is a liability not an asset in Academia now. Along with the fact that most people don't even have the option to take risk with the massive increase of cost of housing. Our society has been designed to squeeze out cash flow and it's smothering our creatives…

It's weird, most of my personality traits that were liabilities going through school have become massive assets in the workforce. I only hung onto those traits through sheer stubbornness, despite the school system's continuous efforts to stamp them out.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#69

Post by nine_k »

mhaberl wrote: post #40
inglor_cz wrote: post #2

He is onto something there. Bean counting is useful and companies cannot survive without good cashflow, but it should not become Mission A of the company, or engineering (and other) talent will look elsewhere. If one company's de facto mission statement is "We want to grow our market by 8.2 per cent and give our bosses higher Christmas bonuses" and another one comes and says "Guys, we want to fly to fscking Mars!", c…

He is in a very specific situation, he is the founder and the CEO and has a lot of money to burn. He wants to do big things and he can do them. A lot of companies have stock holders who expect some return every year without risking too much. As a society we sure would be better off if had more Elon Musk type company leaders, but for that too happen we would need more exceptional people like him (not going to happen)…

This is a good reason to keep the company private, or issue and sell only non-voting shares to the general public.

Wall Street seems to be mostly interested by the current quarter's results, or the current year's at best. This may mismatch and undermine your long-term goals.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#70

Post by mhh__ »

robotresearcher wrote: post #31
yudlejoza wrote: post #18

It's a special case of, there's too many people and not enough work (the real problem IMO).

The years before covid, unemployment was at historic lows.

The way unemployment is measured both practically and in the abstract (a PhD working as a cleaner is still employed) too subtle for a blanket dismissal like that.
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