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GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

sourceforge.net

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Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#131

Post by GnarfGnarf »

herodotus wrote: post #69

My first job, after graduating, was for Control Data Corporation. I was called a Systems Analyst, but what I did was write a lot of Cobol code. Many years later, I wrote a paper about a novel data structure that could be used for what is called "The Balance Line Algorithm". I illustrated the use of this data structure with some Cobol. That was the last time I even thought about Cobol until I came across a citation to…

The "MOVE CORRESPONDING" was kind of neat, don't see that in today's languages. Instead you have to tediously copy each individual field.

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#132

Post by swirepe »

skulk wrote: post #129
nescioquid wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alarming amount of software development, especially now, is little more than plugging part A into part B. The major trend of software development has been to increase the degree of similarity between software developers and plumbers.

So if you're a plumber and you're looking at two parts that don't connect but need to, you're pretty much SOL; you can't fabricate an adapter on the spot. Now, if you're a software engineer and you find yourself in a similar situation, you're expected to "fabricate the adapter." This is why the plumber analogy is fundamentally flawed.

>So if you're a plumber and you're looking at two parts that don't connect but need to

then you force it together with whatever you have at hand, and wrap it all in a thick layer of duct tape. That's exactly like software engineering.

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#133

Post by the_only_law »

nonesuchluck wrote: post #128
the_only_law wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious too, my understanding is that 90% of COBOL work is done in older mainframes (or ported from older mainframes to newer ones) and likely uses whatever IBM compilers. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of GnuCOBOL being used outside of learning.

In my (very limited) z/OS experience, COBOL by itself is necessary but not nearly sufficient. COBOL code is used inside a framework of highly proprietary software and system services: - DB2 (database is builtin to the mainframe) - GDG (Generation Data Groups, versioned file system) - ACL (IBM's original access control lists) - JCL (automation, parameters, logging) - SyncSort (data sorting, joining) - various CA Techn…

Yep this is why I'm also weary of people who suggest to "just learn COBOL" for a job.

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#134

Post by pbourke »

Misteur-Z wrote: post #87
hansor wrote: post #62

Its awful that most people here are criticizing COBOL, yet they don't even know it, but they just "heard bad things about it". In my country and in Sweden it is quite easy to get good and stable job in banking/insurance/consulting business with Cobol on Z/OS. Salary is around 10-30k PER MONTH. Around 3x more then in let's say Java.

Until some COBOL developer publishes his pay slip, I will stick to reality, top IT salaries are at tech giants. From personal experience: BNP Paribas is one of the biggest bank in the world, top 5 if you exclude Chinese state owned ones, and they pay mainframe related jobs like shit. Being young, smart and with a whole career ahead, you have no future working has a COBOL developer, no one should spend his life pickin…

> no one should spend his life picking up shitty code left by his elders decades ago.

Would you say that to a civil engineer who works on infrastructure maintenance?

Computing is critical infrastructure in many areas of government and business. The solution to all problems cannot be “screw it, we’ll just rewrite in Go with a React frontend.” Some things should be rewritten and some should be maintained.

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#135

Post by the_only_law »

bjarneh wrote: post #16

Keeping it old school with sourceforge of course

I'm afraid of SF links not even because the malware thing from a few years back, but because there's a 50/50 chance "the project that looks like it will perfectly solve my issues" is just straight up abandonware.

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#136

Post by pbourke »

emidln wrote: post #123
rhabarba wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if they paid for COBOL courses, that is. COBOL still evolves.

If they paid well enough, your average working programmer would flip to COBOL for a pay raise. Once you've learned a few languages, you can solve problems in any language. It's just about having the manual and maybe an overview of available facilities so you don't have to read all the docs upfront. The syntax doesn't matter for data plumbing applications. COBOL is as good as BASIC as good as Java as good as Python et…

It’s not the language but the ecosystem that’s a barrier to entry. Do you have a z series in your garage to hack around with?

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#137

Post by pbourke »

nix23 wrote: post #22
speeder wrote: post #5

Sometimes I wonder if I should learn COBOL just so maybe I can get my first real programming job. (and no, I am not joking...)

I say YES do it, learn COBOL and Mainframes, don't listen to others who say Mainframe is a thing of the past, it's here to stay. Just talk with leading positions in Insurance/Finance government maybe?, they are more then happy to find someone who is motivated and eager to learn, AND they have the money and time to support and build-you-up (Training mentors certs licenses etc.).

Is it possible to study mainframe programming independently?

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#138

Post by kjs3 »

kyting wrote: post #126

RM Cobol, Nevada Cobol, Cobol-80..., what a good old days to use those Cobol compilers back on early 90s. old soldiers never die but fade away.

Wow...Nevada Cobol. That brings back some memories. We were kinda shocked someone could fit it on a CP/M machine. Had a friend who learned enough using Nevada at home to get a job doing VM/370 Cobol for an airline and ended up becoming a VP by the time he retired.

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#139

Post by kjs3 »

pbourke wrote: post #137
nix23 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say YES do it, learn COBOL and Mainframes, don't listen to others who say Mainframe is a thing of the past, it's here to stay. Just talk with leading positions in Insurance/Finance government maybe?, they are more then happy to find someone who is motivated and eager to learn, AND they have the money and time to support and build-you-up (Training mentors certs licenses etc.).

Is it possible to study mainframe programming independently?

Yup. You can get some hands-on using the Hercules emulator, but it's running old versions of the OSes due to licensing. That can give you the basics, tho, because Mainframe OSes tend to be pretty stable over time.

Beyond that, IBM has a ton of educational resources you could leverage. At one time they had a program where you could get an account on a mainframe, but I don't know if they do that any more.

Udemy has some mainframe/Cobol tracks. I assume other on-line training does as well.

There are a number of colleges that have mainframe focused degree tracks (Columbus State University has one). These days, you could probably find one that does it on-line.

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#140

Post by galoisgirl »

pbourke wrote: post #136
emidln wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they paid well enough, your average working programmer would flip to COBOL for a pay raise. Once you've learned a few languages, you can solve problems in any language. It's just about having the manual and maybe an overview of available facilities so you don't have to read all the docs upfront. The syntax doesn't matter for data plumbing applications. COBOL is as good as BASIC as good as Java as good as Python et…

It’s not the language but the ecosystem that’s a barrier to entry. Do you have a z series in your garage to hack around with?

I have 3 free accounts on Mainframes from various courses to hack around with.

I looked at jobs in my area and some don't require any experience, they train you.

There's also the kid who just bought a Mainframe: https://www.fastcompany.com/3063265/this-teenage-ibm-employe...

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