Corporate-based media doesn’t like competition.
Perhaps we need more journalists and not National Enquirer-type ones.
After all, who is really turning off the lights to this “Democracy dies in a darkness”?
We can have democracy or we can have Facebook
251–260 of 520 posts
Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But perhaps you think lying to people on an industrial scale is ok? Nobody seemed to have this much of a problem with propaganda back when the common man did not have access to it.
The common man? Some of the problem is youtube promoting a 'common man' Alex Jones 15bn times because he drives youtube's advertising revenue. And some of the problem is russia running active disinformation campaigns and organising competing protesters to fight in the streets. If this happened in the 70's, you bet people would have had a problem with it.
You bet this happened in the 70's.
Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I believe that democracy is a mistake and we should be ruled by an authoritarian king. You probably believe this to be a lie That's an opinion, not a lie. A lie would be saying "pigs grow on trees", "in a monarchy the king is chosen in an election every four years" or "the earth is flat", to put some examples. > So why do I believe it? Because it makes sense to me. What is it then, people believe lies because it ma…
>What is it then, people believe lies because it makes sense to them or because other people lie? Because reality is not so clear cut as "pigs grow on trees". No one is claiming anything as ludicrous as pigs grow on trees in our political debates. Disagreeing with most of the narrative on climate change is not the same as saying pigs grow on trees, for instance.
If reality is not so clear cut, then a constant exposure to lies would not help anyone to better understand it. Which is my point: it's not that people are now trusting an alternative source of information because they lied previously, it's that there's so much misinformation and lies that people don't even know what they can trust, and even basic facts get doubted. That is serious damage for democracy.
Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook
#254Honestly, americans who are thinking in all seriousness that "we can have democracy or we can have Facebook" are just deluding themselves. I wonder why facebook usage isn't "sowing discord" in Netherlands or, say, Germany, or other EU countries? From what I know, Facebook makes some real euros there, so adoption rate is quite high, but still, democracy is not "under attack" in these countries because of "automated ne…
The far right and far left have surged globally, the old center has collapsed. The far right has had more successful surges, to be clear.
Are you American by any chance? You may be committing the same mistake you complain of.
The neonazis have made great gains in Germany, Brexit happened. The far right northern league came to power as part of a coalition, with a leader who called for mass cleansing.
A Hindu nationalist party is in power in India, buoyed by whatsapp chain messages. In France, Macron came out of nowehere: he is a centrist but this still shows a collapse of the old structures. His biggest threat is a fascist.
Bolsonaro, a Trump admirer is in power in Brazil. The president of the phillipines, Duterte, boasts of summarily executing drug dealers. Authoritarians rule in Hungary and Poland.
Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
How many of the people that think the virus isn’t real are critical thinkers though (meaning Occam’s razor, the scientific method, etc)? It’s not just education per se that we need, but education in critical thinking, and also history.
I'd love to see logic taught in schools. Like philosophy of argument style courses. Of course this won't fix all the problems, since it depends on the acceptance and practice of the knowledge presented (US grades and high school graduation rates aren't great). But maybe it would give us a chance at being a little better. I think citizenship tests should be extended to all via school curriculum. If we require people w…
Immigrants are required to possess a modicum of knowledge about the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the system of government, not to mention some level of command of the English language (my wife teaches citizenship courses to immigrants). I, myself, am a naturalized citizen, from Canada, and I had to swear an oath to uphold the Constitution, forbear allegiance to foreign powers etc.
It's a ritual, but rituals have meaning and power. It would be nice to see more native-born Americans with a strong grounding in democracy and electoral politics.
When we had a mandatory military draft, at that time most able bodied young men were required to put on a uniform, salute the U.S. flag, march to patriotic music, etc.
Today this sounds trite and even anti-democracy -- weren't we indoctrinating generations of gullible young people to just blindly follow the leader?
Yet, today, many young people including college graduates are hardly patriotic at all, and are mind-numbingly ignorant of even the most basic facts, as illustrated by man-in-the-street interviews posted on Youtube by wags like Ami Horowitz and Mark Dice, getting college students to admit that the triceratops (an extinct dinosaur) is endangered and trophy hunting of this poor beast should be banned, and similar ridiculous notions.
Even during the Vietnam War, one survey in about 1970 found that 25% of Americans thought Vietnam was in South America.
Education is the key, and by that I believe you and I both agree that indoctrination in particular directions is not the same thing. My kid in high school... well, I could tell you stories, but I'd better stop :)
Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
>How do you think populist leaders gain such a large voice so quickly in those EU countries? There are two options here. 1. People are not really happy with current status quo so they are looking to choose alternative leaders via elections, just as expected in democratic countries. 2. Some bad guys post bad stuff on Facebook and, like, 30% of german voters read it and march to election booth like zombies to vote the…
In case 2. you're being a little disingenuous by oversimplifying the issue. The issue is that when "bad guys post bad stuff", it gets amplified because its engaging, and can really distort people's reality and nudge their belief systems. Have you taken a look at Cambridge Analytica? This was their playbook. There's a reason those people were paid a lot of money, and received a ton of scrutiny. As for case 1. Yes, peo…
It’s easy to scapegoat than actually solve a real problem. This is a well tested way to win elections.
Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43301643 Especially Russia would have a lot to gain from Trump being re-elected. It would have been crazy if they didn't put all hands on it. And the same can be extended to friendly candidates in other countries.
Yeah, I know. Russia would have a lot to gain from: -- Trump being re-elected -- Yellow Vests riots in France -- Brexit -- Alternative for Germany party rise in Germany and all of these happened because of Facebook+Russia. Sorry, but this is just Q-Anon level global conspiracy theory adopted for progressives. :-(
How do you explain the Internet Research Agency then? What purpose do they serve?
Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I know. Russia would have a lot to gain from: -- Trump being re-elected -- Yellow Vests riots in France -- Brexit -- Alternative for Germany party rise in Germany and all of these happened because of Facebook+Russia. Sorry, but this is just Q-Anon level global conspiracy theory adopted for progressives. :-(
How do you explain the Internet Research Agency then? What purpose do they serve? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency
Stealing goverment money under the premise of "we will rule the world comrade, so please allocate 100 million dollars to us ASAP" and pocketing it to buy London properties, obviously.
And of course, 50K out of 100M will be really allocated to buy some shitty FB ads to make screenshots and present it to higher-ups.
Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook
#259Yuck. Neither democracy nor facebook, thanks. Nor any nannying or moralising about hate speech. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me. Or you.
Boy do I hate that phrase. It's absolutely incorrect from a neuroscience perspective. Words can in fact hurt you, and, depending on circumstances, cause long term psychological damage. Here's a place to start to learn more if you want: https://www.td.org/insights/the-neuroscience-of-reward-and-t...
Hurt has acquired multiple meanings. The phrase you hate refers to "hurt" of the bone-breaking variety. To me, that makes it clear. But maybe it's confusing.
Re: We can have democracy or we can have Facebook
#260Honestly, americans who are thinking in all seriousness that "we can have democracy or we can have Facebook" are just deluding themselves. I wonder why facebook usage isn't "sowing discord" in Netherlands or, say, Germany, or other EU countries? From what I know, Facebook makes some real euros there, so adoption rate is quite high, but still, democracy is not "under attack" in these countries because of "automated ne…
> I wonder why facebook usage isn't "sowing discord" in Netherlands
But it is? Antivaxxers are at an all time high here, the Pietendiscussie is inflamed on both sides primarily through social media. My plumber-neighbour is an excellent source for learning what the latest conspiracy theory is on his Facebook feed.
If you don't see it, you probably meet people from a narrow slice of society. I certainly see that these kinds of experiences are vastly different between my friends-circle, all former fellow university students, or my villages neighbours, a tiny place far from the urban centres of the Netherlands. My family is a bit in between, again correlating with age.
I absolutely think Facebook is making this country worse. It's the main method of how corona-disbelievers are keeping rates up by encouraging each other to ignore 'rules'.