GnuCOBOL 3.1.1 • Hacker News Board

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#61

Post by the_af » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

speeder wrote: post #53

the_af wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, don't learn COBOL unless your dream job requires it. You absolutely shouldn't learn COBOL before knowing which job you're aiming for. COBOL isn't an interesting or particularly useful language to learn.

I am aiming for any job that has coding in it, and pays well enough to support a large family.

In that case, wouldn't it be better to review which programming job positions pay decently and are open where you live -- or are willing to relocate to -- and see which languages they are asking for? It's unlikely that COBOL will be your top choice.

Otherwise you're "putting the cart before the horse", so to speak. Plus listing COBOL in your resume can have a detrimental effect in future job interviews, at least at some companies.

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#62

Post by hansor » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 2:24 PM UTC

Its awful that most people here are criticizing COBOL, yet they don't even know it, but they just "heard bad things about it".

In my country and in Sweden it is quite easy to get good and stable job in banking/insurance/consulting business with Cobol on Z/OS.

Salary is around 10-30k PER MONTH. Around 3x more then in let's say Java.

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#63

Post by joseluisq » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 2:29 PM UTC

If anyone of us has not learned the lesson yet.

> Real programmers don't write in COBOL. COBOL is for COmmon Business Oriented Laymen who can run neither a business nor a real program.

http://www.bernstein-plus-sons.com/RPDEQ.html

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#64

Post by enriquto » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

nmrcq wrote: post #6

enriquto wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for me it's "import pandas as pd"

Seeing this at the top of any piece of code running in a production environment is enough to induce an anxiety attack :(

> Seeing this at the top of any piece of code running in a production environment is enough to induce an anxiety attack

Then what about this?:

    import pandas as pd
    from matplotlib import pyplot as plt
    import numpy as np
    import math
    from __future__ import print_function

(sorry about that)

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#65

Post by rhabarba » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

rovr138 wrote: post #57

speeder wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I already know: C, C++, Obj-C, C#, Php, Lua, x86 ASM, ARM ASM, Linoleum (some ASM-like esoteric languagE), BASIC (not VB), Java, Python, JS, MushCODE (it is derived from LISP), SQL and some application specific scripting languages. I started coding when I was 8, I am 32 now, and in my government-issued employer list, I had zero employers. My dad knows COBOL and MUMPS, and kept talking about how horrible they…

Most of the interfaces I've seen that interact with COBOL running on mainframes are built with Java. Not sure if this helps, but could also lead into working close/near with mainframes and COBOL.

Quite a few companies have specialized in migrating COBOL to C# or Java code, so I’m not surprised. I wonder why they choose those languages as one-trick ponies though. Seems like the “we only have a hammer” problem.

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#66

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

pletnes wrote: post #43

melenaboija wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you will not have to deal with the ego of the current programmers that pretend they now everything about any existing programming language, paradigm and technical stack (where I include myself and because that is what is demanded)

You’ll instead be stuck with devs who ramble on about how the old stuff is best and who needs try/catch and goto is faster than loops etc.

[deleted]

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#67

Post by enthd » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 2:40 PM UTC

Ah COBOL, oddly enough I started my first dev job in COBOL in the banking industry(I'm in my 30s and started my professional coding career in my 20s), I have mixed feelings about it...it's a weird language but it has it's place, I wouldn't advise anyone to jump into a COBOL career path unless you are doing it for a job and a job alone.

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#68

Post by kps » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

the_af wrote: post #44

Koshkin wrote: post #17

I do not get all the hatred. The idea behind COBOL’s syntax is the same as SQL’s: it is merely yet another “Structured English Query/Programming Language” designed, initially, for non-programmers to be able to describe in words what it is they would like to accomplish in a way they could be understood by the computer.

The hatred comes from people like me, who have worked with COBOL and will tell you it's terribly frustrating to work with, needlessly verbose in multiple places where it doesn't need to be, and often used in banks for purposes which are the death of all you hold dear or interesting to work with. COBOL is not an interesting programming language these days, and you should not learn it unless you need it for your curren…

> It doesn't work for non-programmers.

It wasn't designed to work, it was designed to please senior management.

Grace Hopper: “I used to be a mathematics professor. At that time I found there were a certain number of students who could not learn mathematics. I then was charged with the job of making it easy for businessmen to use our computers. I found it was not a question of whether they could learn mathematics or not, but whether they would. […] They said, ‘Throw those symbols out — I do not know what they mean, I have not time to learn symbols.’ I suggest a reply to those who would like data processing people to use mathematical symbols that they make the first attempt to teach those symbols to vice-presidents or a colonel or admiral. I assure you that I tried it.”

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#69

Post by herodotus » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 2:44 PM UTC

My first job, after graduating, was for Control Data Corporation. I was called a Systems Analyst, but what I did was write a lot of Cobol code. Many years later, I wrote a paper about a novel data structure that could be used for what is called "The Balance Line Algorithm". I illustrated the use of this data structure with some Cobol. That was the last time I even thought about Cobol until I came across a citation to my paper. In excitement at being cited, I looked at the reference in the citing paper. Imagine my disappointment when I read the citation: "[X]showed that this can even be done in Cobol".

Re: GnuCOBOL 3.1.1

#70

Post by mprev » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 2:51 PM UTC

hansor wrote: post #62

Its awful that most people here are criticizing COBOL, yet they don't even know it, but they just "heard bad things about it". In my country and in Sweden it is quite easy to get good and stable job in banking/insurance/consulting business with Cobol on Z/OS. Salary is around 10-30k PER MONTH. Around 3x more then in let's say Java.

30k in Swedish krone?