Bret Victor on working at Apple. • Hacker News Board

Re: Bret Victor on working at Apple.

#61

Post by eropple » Wed, May 11, 2011, 3:44 PM UTC

pnathan wrote: post #57

JonnieCache wrote: post #11

The post is almost content-free, we all know apple is secretive. But that website is a work of art, although it does crawl in chrome on my current-gen mac mini. If the guy doesn't like apple, I doubt he'd have much trouble finding work elsewhere. EDIT: re-reading, I see that he has.

Agreed. His website should be cause for Serious Hiring of the creator. It is innovative, inventive, and probably 5 years ahead of its time... It crawls on my current-gen Macbook Pro (Chrome).

Huh, really? It was pretty snappy on mine (2.4GHz i5 MBP, Ubuntu Linux).

Re: Bret Victor on working at Apple.

#62

Post by endergen » Wed, May 11, 2011, 3:47 PM UTC

redfloatplane wrote: post #14

The title really should be changed to reflect the actual message (or lack of one). Nowhere in the post does he say that he didn't have a good time working at Apple. Nowhere does he advise not working there (like the title suggests). From what I infer, anyway, his actual message is that he can't show what he worked on at Apple - not that it's a bad place to work.

NYC guys edit your titles for you? Because I didn't strip off the "hint don't"?

I don't believe it was editorializing in any serious degree. My point stands and I do believe he looks to feel that way. I tried to capture the gist of the article in a title. For fun I'd love to hear some alternative titles.

Re: Bret Victor on working at Apple.

#63

Post by endergen » Wed, May 11, 2011, 5:00 PM UTC

nagrom wrote: post #38

redfloatplane wrote: post #14

The title really should be changed to reflect the actual message (or lack of one). Nowhere in the post does he say that he didn't have a good time working at Apple. Nowhere does he advise not working there (like the title suggests). From what I infer, anyway, his actual message is that he can't show what he worked on at Apple - not that it's a bad place to work.

Well, he does imply that it was a mistake. The impression for me was that he regrets the time spent there.

Exactly. Hence my now defunct '(Hint don't)' abbreviation of the tone/conclusion of the article.

Re: Bret Victor on working at Apple.

#64

Post by endergen » Wed, May 11, 2011, 5:06 PM UTC

BrainScraps wrote: post #5

The document linked below is easily the least important page on the whole site. But without it, I would have never read the rest of it, so thank you. I think I just spend about 50 minutes getting schooled by Mr. Victor. Amazing concepts. (everything I just typed feels trite after the sweeping visions imparted in the literature on that site. Seriously. I'm going to bed.)

Exactly. I'm a huge fan. He's tackling complex problems and trying his best to do something about it. Working at Apple you'd think would be a good approach. But his work for Al Gore is likely a better starting point to evangelizing his points. Especially when he's unconstrained by NDAs.

Re: Bret Victor on working at Apple.

#65

Post by endergen » Wed, May 11, 2011, 5:07 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #40

stefs wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Q - But that box is empty! It's an empty box! A - Yes, exactly. Q - Oh, okay, I thought you had made some sort of mistake. A - Yes, exactly.

That's not saying don't work at apple. That might be saying. It was a mistake that I worked for apple. Or it was a mistake that I worked for a place where I wasn't allowed to show what I did Or so many other things. But no where does he advice people against working for apple.

I'm surprised how many people are strongly against my conclusion in my title. He is saying pretty clearly that it was a mistake.

Re: Bret Victor on working at Apple.

#66

Post by freshfunk » Wed, May 11, 2011, 6:04 PM UTC

gokhan wrote: post #13

Looks like there are more to this story. The Departure one is really creative :) http://worrydream.com/#!/Freedom http://worrydream.com/#!/Departure Great site, overall.

That departure one is excellent.

Re: Bret Victor on working at Apple.

#67

Post by CognitiveLens » Wed, May 11, 2011, 6:10 PM UTC

fredoliveira wrote: post #34

wildmXranat wrote: post #31

Somehow it comes as no surprise to me that he's been 'Inventing shit'. Carry on; get a job, create one for yourself. That apple stamp of approval on your resume helps and we know Apple is run like a death star.

I'll bite. Define the workings of the death star. Or rather, define how you see the workings of the death star in a way that helps me comprehend your definition of how Apple is run. The things I've read all point to Apple being pretty much a great place to work, except that because of its secrecy not a lot (if anything in many projects) can be shared outside their walls. This is, if you think about it, one of the mai…

Hence, like the death star. It would have rocked the empire (market) if the rebels hadn't stolen the plans.

Re: Bret Victor on working at Apple.

#68

Post by alwillis » Wed, May 11, 2011, 8:20 PM UTC

Argorak wrote: post #10

Hate to say it: thats not even an Apple problem. Almost every corporate research division works like this. A lot of ideas go there to die.

True that. It’s not like the web is full of prototypes and ideas from other high profile companies except Apple.

Haters are going to hate…

Re: Bret Victor on working at Apple.

#69

Post by alwillis » Wed, May 11, 2011, 8:24 PM UTC

nl wrote: post #9

andrewguenther wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a warning even necessary? I am fairly certain every company works this way.

Umm.. no they don't Many companies encourage people to talk about their work. See, for example, Microsoft, Facebook, Google, Twitter etc. Obviously they have some restrictions - but nothing like Apple.

Talking about your work is one thing; talking about what you’re working on, that’s something else entirely.

Re: Bret Victor on working at Apple.

#70

Post by j79 » Wed, May 11, 2011, 11:29 PM UTC

chalst wrote: post #27

cabalamat wrote: post #7

Didn't read due to crap web design.

Why, the beautiful all-black page I get loading it without js enabled is quite elegant. I might well not have read the page, but I certainly appreciated it.

It's just the hash-bang links that break with JavaScript disabled. If you visit the home page with JavaScript disabled (or IE-enabled, heh...), you're actually good to go: http://worrydream.com/Apple/

Personally, I think it's a gorgeous site; An amazing example of interactive front-end web development. It amazes me to think that just a few years ago, the only real option for this interactivity would have been Flash.