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More Americans are shoplifting food

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Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#121

Post by rufus_foreman »

swiley wrote: post #14

The US is probably inches away from a serious catastrophy caused be the extreme inequality that's only gotten worse this year. Inequality is one thing, but when you're forced out on to the street to starve to death and there's nothing you can do to improve your situation that's totally different.

What would you do if you didn't have money for food and couldn't get food stamps or some form of charity or welfare?

Starve to death?

I've been there, decades ago, and that's not how it went down for me.

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#122

Post by sjg007 »

Frost1x wrote: post #107
monetus wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An eviction moratium exists, but it doesn't cover your bills. "Almost everywhere," and "suspended", lack truthiness. As far as I know, unpaid rent and utilities will be owed. Some legislatures and housing organizations forgave periods of time, I think - that could certainly give you the impression that it is ubiquitous. Anecdotal: the food pantry near my home is often busy now; much, much more so than last year.

AFAIK, late payments can also be subject to interest and late fees as well. So, while some might not be evicted during the pandemic, they might build up so much debt and interest without income during this time that when things are over, they'll be filing bankruptcy and be out in the streets at a different, future time. I guess it's better than being homeless during the pandemic? Pretty sad state of affairs we have i…

I expect that this will be solved by restructuring, bailouts and tax credits. The US govt buys most mortgages anyway. I think we will see massive government intervention hopefully we learnt the lessons of 2008.

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#123

Post by jacobolus »

nostromo wrote: post #119
jacobolus wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the GOP had been able to even get their own caucus to agree on a bill, they would have brought it to a vote. But they couldn’t. Putting even the milquetoast HEALS act up for a vote would have put some of their members in a conflicted spot trying to both appear to care about the crisis while still appeasing hard-liner donors/supporters. If the Senate had brought the HEROES Act as passed by the House to the floor, i…

If you think HEALS was milquetoast at $1.1T, you must be pretty upset that Pelosi has now agreed to pass a bill at $0.9T... after months of demanding no less than $3.0T. Gee, I wonder what happened in November for her to change her mind... I'll stop responding now; it's pretty clear a number of folks on HN think that only one party can play political games and this has gotten trite.

> you must be pretty upset that Pelosi has now agreed [...]

Nancy Pelosi is surely also upset that we can’t do something more aggressive, but anything at all would be better than nothing (and we might still be stuck with nothing this year). We’re in an extraordinarily severe crisis, and people, small businesses, and state/local governments have been in urgent need of relief for months.

Even jaded political veterans expected some action from the Senate these past 7 months, under the circumstances. But what we have seen again and again in recent years is that even when we lower the bar down to the floor, they still manage to trip over it.

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#124

Post by blacksmith_tb »

anonunivgrad wrote: post #76

More and more cities and even states are adopting laws that essentially decriminalize shoplifting below $500 or $1000 worth of merchandise. Open air shoplifted-products markets now exist in major American cities. This is purely a political decision, not some pressing economic need. This is the result of the agenda of these DAs elected on aggressively progressive platforms.

That sounds extremely unlikely to me - do you have any references? Looking through gNews for 'shoplifiting' I see things like [1] which average around $100 or less and those were arrests.

1: https://www.cleveland.com/community/2020/12/lorain-woman-wit...

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#125

Post by dragonwriter »

nostromo wrote: post #112
dragonwriter wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Senate introduced the similarly stupidly named HEALS act. It takes two to tango. It didn't pass it, unlike the House and HEROES. The Senate could have acted on the passed House bill. The House had no bill from the Senate to take up, since the Senate bill died in (Republican-led) committee. The House is the only one on the dance floor. And Nancy Pelosi may have opposed the Republican position in negotiations, bu…

Passing a bill you know is dead on arrival is pointless. It's virtue signaling, which is what the house did. Suddenly, after the election, Pelosi is fine passing the same amount she opposed before the election as only half what was necessary. This isn't some right-wing talking point -- Bernie Sanders has sad as much. This was a political game. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fact-check-did-berni...

> Passing a bill you know is dead on arrival is pointless.

Actually, its often a significant part of the political process of building popular and, thereby, legislative support for a solution (which will ultimately often be a compromise from the DOA proposal.)

And, in a bicameral legislature, taking up a measure on an issue that is unacceptable in the form the other house passed it in, and amending it to the form that you think is better and sending it back (or to conference to resolve the issues) is a way of moving forward that is generally more effective than sending an alternative bill to die in committee and then ignoring the issue.

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#126

Post by sjg007 »

defterGoose wrote: post #36
sjg007 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the pandemic that is tripping the scale and Congress refusing to do anything.

That's a comforting line of reasoning, albeit a fantastic one. It's much closer to a straw/camel's back situation in my estimation.

Oh I agree with you. This all started in the 1970s with union busting etc... the average American earnings should be 50% higher today than they are.

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#127

Post by just-juan-post »

threatofrain wrote: post #99
e40 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Bay Area there has been a big uptick in thefts and break-ins. My sources are local people and first-hand knowledge (such as seeing broken glass everywhere on the street). I'm in the Oakland area, but friends in other places have experienced and witnessed some crazy things this year. It just blows me away that (part of) Congress has stonewalled any attempts to get people money, given the lockdowns. Reportedly t…

Giving individuals money is a top Democratic political point but they don't have the negotiating power to make the GOP budge. Democrats would absolutely love to give a $1200 check to every individual, as that would help cities greatly. Socialist is a toxic insult in the GOP party, and it's how they painted the Democrats in Florida, as well as AOC and Bernie.

> they don't have the negotiating power to make the GOP budge.

A reminder that Nancy Pelosi turned down a $1 trillion+ stimulus offer from the White House.

Trump makes $1.8 trillion economic relief offer, but deal with Pelosi remains elusive (Oct 09 2020)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/10/09/trump-ec...

Nancy Pelosi blasts the White House's $1.6 trillion stimulus plan, saying it's not even 'half a loaf' (Oct 01 2020)

https://www.businessinsider.com/nancy-pelosi-blasts-white-ho...

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#128

Post by dragonwriter »

nostromo wrote: post #119
jacobolus wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the GOP had been able to even get their own caucus to agree on a bill, they would have brought it to a vote. But they couldn’t. Putting even the milquetoast HEALS act up for a vote would have put some of their members in a conflicted spot trying to both appear to care about the crisis while still appeasing hard-liner donors/supporters. If the Senate had brought the HEROES Act as passed by the House to the floor, i…

If you think HEALS was milquetoast at $1.1T, you must be pretty upset that Pelosi has now agreed to pass a bill at $0.9T... after months of demanding no less than $3.0T. Gee, I wonder what happened in November for her to change her mind... I'll stop responding now; it's pretty clear a number of folks on HN think that only one party can play political games and this has gotten trite.

> If you think HEALS was milquetoast at $1.1T, you must be pretty upset that Pelosi has now agreed to pass a bill at $0.9T...

It was milquetoast, but not primarily because of the dollar amount (which is, though, inadequate as anything other than a partial stopgap and bridge), but because of substantive provisions.

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#129

Post by sjg007 »

just-juan-post wrote: post #117
sjg007 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if we open up with no restrictions a lot of people will get very sick very quickly. This will overwhelm hospitals. I mean we are almost at a complete ICU collapse right now already. And a lot of people will die, not just of covid but of other treatable diseases. Not to mention we will run out of PPE and medical supplies. Care will be rationed even more than it is now. More doctors and nurses and respiratory ther…

> Well if we open up with no restrictions a lot of people will get very sick very quickly. This will overwhelm hospitals. The problem is that the public has been hearing this for almost 9 months now and with the exception of a hospital or two it hasn't happened. You can only cry wolf so many times. > I mean we are almost at a complete ICU collapse right now already. Besides a few one off stories could you please prov…

All of the answers you seek are in this article. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02948-4

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#130

Post by CharlesW »

just-juan-post wrote: post #127
threatofrain wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving individuals money is a top Democratic political point but they don't have the negotiating power to make the GOP budge. Democrats would absolutely love to give a $1200 check to every individual, as that would help cities greatly. Socialist is a toxic insult in the GOP party, and it's how they painted the Democrats in Florida, as well as AOC and Bernie.

> they don't have the negotiating power to make the GOP budge. A reminder that Nancy Pelosi turned down a $1 trillion+ stimulus offer from the White House. Trump makes $1.8 trillion economic relief offer, but deal with Pelosi remains elusive (Oct 09 2020) https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/10/09/trump-ec... Nancy Pelosi blasts the White House's $1.6 trillion stimulus plan, saying it's not even 'half a loaf…

She had to because it was extremely bad, based on an evaluation from the Chairs of the Committees of Jurisdiction. You can read their top-line comments (presented with links to more in-depth analysis) here[1].

[1] https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/101320

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