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More Americans are shoplifting food

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Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#81

Post by et-al »

brundolf wrote: post #19
8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that Elon Musk doesn't have plenty of flaws that people online will be happy to spill much ink about, but what does that have to do with widespread poverty on a national level? Does the US not have a government and state-level and federal-level representatives whose job it is to take care of their citizens and keep them out of starvation? Elon Musk and his pals seem like a convenient distraction from holding acco…

Many of those wealthy individuals (or their companies, at least) have lobbied to ensure that we don't have a government which takes upon itself to keep citizens out of starvation. Not sure about Elon Musk specifically, but politicians don't just magically decide to ignore the needs of their constituents.

To spell it out for those in the back: reducing tax rates reduces the government's ability to fund public projects. i.e. roads, schools, and safety nets like food banks.

Also, the responsibility of feeding children has fallen upon schools in some areas. When SF closed schools in March 2020, one of the issues they had to address was "how do we feed the kids?"

https://www.sfusd.edu/about/news/current-news/sfusd-provide-...

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#82

Post by nostromo »

jacobolus wrote: post #73
nostromo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the election the roles were reversed; it's not as black and white as you're letting on. https://www.newsweek.com/pelosi-says-she-backs-smaller-stimu...

The House passed the HEROES Act in mid May. The GOP Senate sat on it (and did nothing else either) for the past 7 months. Oh, except for a hearing pushing hydroxychloroquine in November, months after multiple studies had shown it ineffective, and a hearing promoting an anti-vaxer just last week. And I guess a bunch of hearings a few months ago wherein various GOP senators heaped ignorant abuse on public health offici…

This is false. The Senate introduced the similarly stupidly named HEALS act. It takes two to tango.

It was politically driven: Democrats were afraid of giving Trump a win. Perhaps it was good politics, since it seems to have worked.

From Newsweek: "Despite a refusal for roughly the past six months to advance a smaller aid package that she deemed 'half a loaf,' House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is now willing to support a bipartisan stimulus bill worth less than half her previous demand thanks to, in part, Joe Biden's victory.

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#83

Post by just-juan-post »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #58
just-juan-post wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still shocked that people beleive this. Well I'm not - It has been a reinforced Democratic talking point for months now. Why should the federal government bail out state governments when the federal government had nothing to do with the state's actions? The state governors could choose to end lifestyle restrictions at any moment but choose not to. Why should the federal government pay for the choices of states an…

The state governors could choose to end lifestyle restrictions at any moment but choose not to. This is a gross misrepresentation that proves you have no interest in serious comment on this matter.

Nah man that's just how I see it.

How do you see it? Do you think it's impossible to remove the restrictions now?

Let me hear your side.

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#84

Post by sanguy »

Shared404 wrote: post #33
sanguy wrote: post #23

When we have politicians endorsing to defund the police, riot, and use violence and terror to get their way what do we expect? Stealing is now perfectly acceptable as it's just distribution of wealth.

> defund the police Yes. If [0] is a point of debate, we need to seriously reform the police system, and defunding/demilitarizing is a good starting point. > When we have politicians endorsing ... riot, and use violence and terror Source? Encouraging protests is not the same as encouraging riots, let alone violence/terror [0] https://www.npr.org/2020/12/07/943829901/police-in-ohio-say-...

We need a more authoritative police who are given authority to really police. This means use of force when needed without being thrown under the bus for doing so as a default response.

What we really need is Judge Dredds or Robocops that can re-establish that "do bad things and bad things happen to you" that is no longer present in todays world.

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#85

Post by [deleted] »

zdragnar wrote: post #53

I once lived in a neigh orhood where you learned to avlid the grocery stores on certain days (especially evenings when fewer police worked), as you would be harassed by people trying to sell you their food stamps. I am sympathetic to people who don't have enough; I know several for whom food stamps and the local food shelf / food banks were thr only ways they got by, either as children or adults. However, the persist…

[deleted]

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#86

Post by AnimalMuppet »

brundolf wrote: post #19
8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that Elon Musk doesn't have plenty of flaws that people online will be happy to spill much ink about, but what does that have to do with widespread poverty on a national level? Does the US not have a government and state-level and federal-level representatives whose job it is to take care of their citizens and keep them out of starvation? Elon Musk and his pals seem like a convenient distraction from holding acco…

Many of those wealthy individuals (or their companies, at least) have lobbied to ensure that we don't have a government which takes upon itself to keep citizens out of starvation. Not sure about Elon Musk specifically, but politicians don't just magically decide to ignore the needs of their constituents.

Politicians magically decide to ignore the needs of their constituents whenever they think they can get away with it, unless they're saints - and not many saints are politicians.

The better question might be, why do they think they can get away with it? Why do they get away with it?

(By the way, note that this is not just a problem with one party...)

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#87

Post by jacobolus »

nostromo wrote: post #82
jacobolus wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The House passed the HEROES Act in mid May. The GOP Senate sat on it (and did nothing else either) for the past 7 months. Oh, except for a hearing pushing hydroxychloroquine in November, months after multiple studies had shown it ineffective, and a hearing promoting an anti-vaxer just last week. And I guess a bunch of hearings a few months ago wherein various GOP senators heaped ignorant abuse on public health offici…

This is false. The Senate introduced the similarly stupidly named HEALS act. It takes two to tango. It was politically driven: Democrats were afraid of giving Trump a win. Perhaps it was good politics, since it seems to have worked. From Newsweek: "Despite a refusal for roughly the past six months to advance a smaller aid package that she deemed 'half a loaf,' House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is now willing to support a bi…

The Senate never brought the HEALS Act to a vote. Sending a bill to committee to die is not good enough in the middle of the worst public health crisis in a century.

> takes two to tango

Indeed, without any action from the Senate, the House is stuck. Again, we should all be hoping for good results in the GA runoffs, or Congress will remain unable to address any of our serious challenges ahead.

The 2 years from 2009–2010 were pretty much the only substantially functional Congress in a generation, and would have accomplished a great deal more if they hadn’t also had to deal with a worldwide economic crisis.

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#88

Post by dragonwriter »

xyzzyz wrote: post #42

At the same time, personal savings rate is through the roof: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT and household debt service costs are lowest in recent history: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP People have received thousands of dollars in stimulus checks. Thanks to extra $600/$300 that the feds have added to federal unemployment, those that lost their jobs received in many cases significantly more that t…

> At the same time, personal savings rate is through the roof:

Yes, people that can afford to save are saving more. The people that can't afford to save are still not saving, but the people who had a surplus now have a bigger one.

> People have received thousands of dollars in stimulus checks.

No, people have (per person) received a maximum of either $500 (to their parent, for children under 17) or $1,200 (for adults) in stimulus checks.

> Thanks to extra $600/$300 that the feds have added to federal unemployment, those that lost their jobs received in many cases significantly more that they were originally making

Yes, when the $600 boost was active, that was true mostly for people making below the average state minimum wage because they live in low-CoL, low-minimum-wage states, because the additional amount was designed to move the average unemployment check nationally approximately up to full replacement. That’s true of even fewer people with the $300 boost which replaced it months ago.

> No, shoplifting is not increasing because people lack cash. Rather, people do it because they can, as the justice system declines to prosecute and punish people for it.

If people had equal or better ability to afford food but were just taking advantage of a law enforcement withdrawal to shoplift more food, you’d expect surveys of food insecurity, charity food lines, and other indicia of actual hunger to be unmoved and the food shoplifting to stand alone. And you would not have expected a spike when the $600 unemployment boost ended, since available money is not the issue. But those expectations would all be wrong, suggesting that money actually is the issue:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/25/long-food-lines-signal-need-...

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#89

Post by jandrewrogers »

adultSwim wrote: post #18

I was struck earlier this year when my local pharmacy started locking up bar soap. This isn't some expensive item to resell, like razor blades. It's a basic necessity that people are struggling to acquire.

This isn't what you assume. Inexpensive commodity goods like soap are frequently stolen because they are much easier to fence than expensive goods, since everyone needs them including poor people. Poor people can't afford to buy expensive stolen goods, and non-poor people don't buy fenced goods generally. Non-perishable household commodities are among the most liquid stolen goods to sell, so that is what people steal.

I've seen (obviously stolen) soap being peddled by apparently homeless addicts on multiple occasions. In some locales, they've been locking up the soap for a long time.

Re: More Americans are shoplifting food

#90

Post by sanguy »

iron0013 wrote: post #74
sanguy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is you don't need to steal food to survive. You just need to go to one of food banks or shelters that will help. I volunteer at one of them. Lots of really good down on their luck people; and they are busier that in the past due to COVID job losses. Those stealing are ones with something to prove. We recently had a situation here at the Giant where two adults were stealing ice cream and when the staff tried…

Food banks and shelters might be in good shape wherever it is that you live, but in many parts of the country they’re stretched to and beyond their capacities. Food banks are simply not a scalable solution to poverty. No form of charity is. Government aid programs are a proven solution to getting resources (like food) into the hands of folks in need. As to your argument that poor people are morally corrupt, it’s laug…

My point was that the poor are not the corrupt. They need to be helped. If the shelters are stretched we need to ensure those shelters get the funding they need to cover the demand. We need to treat these people down on their luck with dignity and help them get back on their feet.

The corrupt are those with other motivations beyond survival.

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