Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders • Hacker News Board

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#41

Post by 908B64B197 » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

Godel_unicode wrote: post #35

908B64B197 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that snarky. Especially from someone new to the field these are questions I would be expecting, especially at a tech company (so pretty equalitarian and meritocratic where the director probably started as an engineer himself). I would also expect the career path to take to get into management to be discussed as well.

It depends how it's said. I would hesitate to correct the person who actually said it about whether they said it in a snarky way unless I was actually there.

Sure, maybe the tone was.

But the question itself doesn't strike me as such, at least coming from a junior engineer.

Someone more senior should know what the tasks of someone at that level are, so asking "what is your job" might be interpreted as implying he isn't doing much.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#42

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

PaulRobinson wrote: post #40

war1025 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My one on ones with my manager have become repetitive My 1:1s with my boss are basically useless and I think we're both aware of that. What do people generally talk about in 1:1s? I've never really been clear what the purpose is other than to check a box and say it happened.

1. Opportunities for timely feedback (in both directions) 2. Concerns/issues 3. General chat Most people forget the third option. It’s OK if it’s just time to hang out with each other. That said, it’s your meeting more than it is your manager’s. If you want to cancel, you should. However, frequent cancellation is a signal of a problem to my mind. As a manager, the only thing more frustrating than a 1:1 which is like…

[deleted]

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#43

Post by enominezerum » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 9:49 PM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #38

dwater wrote: post #12

I would love to have a skip level meeting going 2 levels up. My one on ones with my manager have become repetitive because he asks me what my problems/concerns are, I tell him variations the same 3 or 4 things every time, and has asks me for ideas about what he/we can do to try to solve them from below since he doesn't have the direct power or influence to address them from above. Unfortunately I know who his manager…

> My one on ones with my manager have become repetitive My 1:1s with my boss are basically useless and I think we're both aware of that. What do people generally talk about in 1:1s? I've never really been clear what the purpose is other than to check a box and say it happened.

My old manager had "optional" 1:1 meetings that were decent enough provided folks above him didn't schedule over them.

We would talk about projects I am working on, their general status and if I have blockers, if the team is working good from my POV, administrative stuff like PTO, performance reviews. He also had varying interests so there was some personality there such as what game you playing, what shows you watching. We even shared a bit of "how things at the homefront".

We were both in our late 20s/early 30s and he was relatively new. He didn't want "that manager" because lord know that company had a lot of managers that existed to attend meetings and divy work up with nothing of benefit to the team.

But, I can echo what you are saying. I have had manager that hold meetings just to dodge work and claim they did some managering that day. Yea, daily 2 hour "team lunches and planning sessions" doesn't do anything for the fact we need to get work done boss.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#44

Post by enominezerum » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 9:53 PM UTC

1:1 meetings are just as important in my opinion as an open door policy. Yea, you are my boss's boss and have a lot more reports, you probably get pulled in a lot more directions than I as an IC. I understand why, as teams and companies grow, things get more distanced. Even Linus over at LTT laments that his new hires never get the same 1:1 time his earlier employees had.

But, the topics talked about need to have action take on them. Unless you just don't have any power at all, which I can believe. Quarter after quarter at my old company we would mention that the tasks and direction our org were taking weren't the best, would lead to problems, and that we weren't staffed nor compensated individually enough for the new work and responsibilities being loaded onto us. It fell on deaf ears and when I left we had already had almost a full team leave. Shoot, the whole reason I got that job is because they needed folks so bad they took someone not entirely skilled in that area to pick up the slack. The cycle just kept repeating and here it is, MONTHs later, and I hear the same thing.

Suppose grindhouses are good for cutting your teeth at least.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#45

Post by arminiusreturns » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 9:56 PM UTC

dwater wrote: post #28

wilde wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you requested a meeting? You might be surprised.

No, the upper level person in question is overbooked with being in charge of 1/3 or 1/2 of the company's employees. My personal opinion is that person was given too much responsibility too quickly and is in over their head. When my team came into their purview they told us they wanted to spend as little time as possible on my team, and I've deferred to that statement.

I've seen this before, and generally think it tends to be because technical people who have risen to the top as the org grows don't like giving up power, so they end up holding control over way too many teams/depts and the org suffers for it. (or it's a naive cost saving measure)

I would like to see a comparison of org-charts in highly functioning corps of varying size.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#46

Post by houseofzeus » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 10:48 PM UTC

PaulRobinson wrote: post #40

war1025 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My one on ones with my manager have become repetitive My 1:1s with my boss are basically useless and I think we're both aware of that. What do people generally talk about in 1:1s? I've never really been clear what the purpose is other than to check a box and say it happened.

1. Opportunities for timely feedback (in both directions) 2. Concerns/issues 3. General chat Most people forget the third option. It’s OK if it’s just time to hang out with each other. That said, it’s your meeting more than it is your manager’s. If you want to cancel, you should. However, frequent cancellation is a signal of a problem to my mind. As a manager, the only thing more frustrating than a 1:1 which is like…

I think what gets lost is that it's your 1:1, not the manager's. Same when you go to a skip level.

If they are the one driving the agenda it is indeed probably going to be a waste of time.

This cartoon is a useful prompter for different things to think about going into them:

https://twitter.com/b0rk/status/1037186572234498048?lang=en

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#47

Post by houseofzeus » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 10:51 PM UTC

skeeter2020 wrote: post #2

I dislike that skip levels are positioned as some sort of variation of a 1:1, as other than the # of people they have nothing in common. The 1:1 is for the employee while skip levels are all about the senior manager. We already have enough opportunities for them to set the agenda and drive the conversation. A real 1:1 is a frank conversation about early-stage (potentially bad) things and based on mutual trust and vul…

I would see that kind of group thing as more about building some rapport in a less scary environment than a skip level so that they feel if something was up they can come to you.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#48

Post by war1025 » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 11:11 PM UTC

houseofzeus wrote: post #46

PaulRobinson wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Opportunities for timely feedback (in both directions) 2. Concerns/issues 3. General chat Most people forget the third option. It’s OK if it’s just time to hang out with each other. That said, it’s your meeting more than it is your manager’s. If you want to cancel, you should. However, frequent cancellation is a signal of a problem to my mind. As a manager, the only thing more frustrating than a 1:1 which is like…

I think what gets lost is that it's your 1:1, not the manager's. Same when you go to a skip level. If they are the one driving the agenda it is indeed probably going to be a waste of time. This cartoon is a useful prompter for different things to think about going into them: https://twitter.com/b0rk/status/1037186572234498048?lang=en

So looking at that list,

We have group meetings to cover the majority of:

- What's going well

- What's not going well

- Team priorities

- Brainstorm

My boss in general doesn't really give feedback.

And the answers "Ask for opportunities", "Career Planning", and "Ask for extra resources" is basically, "This is the job, if you want something else, go find a new job"

I did manage to get a raise and a few extra responsibilities by going out and getting a job offer at a different company.

I think probably the real answer is that my job is a dead end and probably an unhealthy environment to have spent so much time in.

But also I have outstanding work-life balance, which is my highest priority at the moment with three young kids at home.

In a couple years maybe that changes.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#49

Post by astrange » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 11:24 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #15

wonder_er wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your skip level manager is not any more able to fire you than your manager True, but say something that reflects negatively on your manager, and if they hear about it, they may rapidly become _more likely_ to fire you than the skip-level manager.

Why would you say something (whether it's negative or not) to your skip that you haven't said to your direct manager? Skip-level meetings should be about distilling important topics from your 1:1's with your direct manager and sharing with your skip what they need to know. There shouldn't really be any information that your skip has that your manager hasn't gotten weeks earlier (if it's negative, so they can try to f…

Not all of your work has to involve your direct manager. Some of it might come from the skip or higher, either because it’s super-secret or to give you more visibility.

In that case you still need healthy communication with your own team manager, but you wouldn’t be telling them everything except what they need to know to manage your workload.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#50

Post by astrange » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 11:29 PM UTC

skeeter2020 wrote: post #2

I dislike that skip levels are positioned as some sort of variation of a 1:1, as other than the # of people they have nothing in common. The 1:1 is for the employee while skip levels are all about the senior manager. We already have enough opportunities for them to set the agenda and drive the conversation. A real 1:1 is a frank conversation about early-stage (potentially bad) things and based on mutual trust and vul…

> A real 1:1 is a frank conversation about early-stage (potentially bad) things and based on mutual trust and vulnerability; this is impossible with the power dynamic in a skip level.

This is true but I do think you’re over-dramatizing it a little. It’s also a good time to be positive (remind them what you do around here) or just talk. Which is important when everyone is working from home!