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To anyone interested, send something to politicaldiscussion at protonmail.com and I'll get a message board set up.
I see that nobody here (currently: czep, froasty, throwaway0b1, chaganated, core-questions) has any contact info in their Hacker News profile. Usually for political stuff that means a conservative working in the Bay Area, hiding in fear, though czep claims to be liberal. Plain old phone numbers might be best for this. It could be too scary with all the hostility. Given how the tech industry is, not many conservatives…
Phone numbers might work, but I personally would prefer something text-based, as I like to think through things before I say them. Again, though, I could see why some people would prefer the opposite.
I'd also like that thank czep for the idea, though - I find myself in a conservative echo chamber in my personal bubble and generally liberal echo chambers online, neither of which are especially receptive to good discussion.
I see that nobody here (currently: czep, froasty, throwaway0b1, chaganated, core-questions) has any contact info in their Hacker News profile. Usually for political stuff that means a conservative working in the Bay Area, hiding in fear, though czep claims to be liberal. Plain old phone numbers might be best for this. It could be too scary with all the hostility. Given how the tech industry is, not many conservatives…
My dad is the conservative I can do what you describe with. (Hopefully the following doesn't go against any politics rules...) However he despises Trump/Trumpism and so sat out the 2016 election and voted against Trump in 2020. So along a similar vein to what you're looking for, I'd actually like to have a civilized, respectful, discussion with a Trump supporter (not merely just a conservative), since my dad doesn't…
I'm curious, what would the differentiating topics be between a conservative and trump supporter? It seems many non-trump supporting conservatives have similar policy stances but don't like his methods/insults/etc. Or would it just be to discuss why they tolerate those factors?
1. religious
2. business (likes outsourcing and unlimited immigration to drive down wages)
3. pro-America
They often hate each other. The first two groups are usually unwilling to admit that Trump has been the best president ever.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm curious, what would the differentiating topics be between a conservative and trump supporter? It seems many non-trump supporting conservatives have similar policy stances but don't like his methods/insults/etc. Or would it just be to discuss why they tolerate those factors?
By definition, a conservative is a slow-motion progressive. Ignoring that technicality, there are 3 types of republican: 1. religious 2. business (likes outsourcing and unlimited immigration to drive down wages) 3. pro-America They often hate each other. The first two groups are usually unwilling to admit that Trump has been the best president ever.
No, they aren’t. A conservative is an anti-progressive. (Classically, an anti-liberal, but that’s less clear these days, because while classical liberalism was a progressive position for its time of origin, “liberal” has been overloaded to refer to defense of the status quo elites established by the success of classical liberalism and continued progress in the direction laid out by classical liberalism, with the latter use sometimes more specifically narrowed to be “at a slower pace than is described by ‘progressivism’”.) The former sense overlaps with conservatism, the latter sense with (possibly specifically slow-motion) progressivism.
> Ignoring that technicality, there are 3 types of republican:
I would say more than that:
1) social conservative (often, but not always, for religious reasons; this group was basically drawn in as a side effect of targeting group #5 with the southern strategy)
2) libertarian (as a distinct faction, really drawn as strategists realized that it was easy to adapt the decentralization and States Rights rhetoric that was classic dogwhistles for group #5 along with a lot of the anti-business-regulatory rhetoric designed to give mass appeal to the interests of group #3 to appeal to this group and reinforce the Republican coalition)
3) corporate neoliberal capitalist (the oldest major faction of the Republican Party, it has been a major factor since very close to the founding of the party, and was dominant from about the time the slavery issue was settled until the 1960s Southern Strategy)
4) American nationalist (there’s actually a lot of these in both major parties; some late cold war issues, though, gave Reps an advantage here.)
5) White supremacist/nationalist (historically a strong Democratic consistuency from the founding of the Democratic-Republican Party with occasional rifts that healed because they had nowhere else to go (like the 1940s Dixiecrat split) until Johnson signed on to the Civil Rights Act and then the Republicans targeted this group heavily in the Southern Strategy (preventing that from being another temporary rift.)
That aside, I should be able to represent the conservative point of view in an email exchange. Either way, drop me a line. My email is in my profile.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
By definition, a conservative is a slow-motion progressive. Ignoring that technicality, there are 3 types of republican: 1. religious 2. business (likes outsourcing and unlimited immigration to drive down wages) 3. pro-America They often hate each other. The first two groups are usually unwilling to admit that Trump has been the best president ever.
> By definition, a conservative is a slow-motion progressive No, they aren’t. A conservative is an anti-progressive. (Classically, an anti-liberal, but that’s less clear these days, because while classical liberalism was a progressive position for its time of origin, “liberal” has been overloaded to refer to defense of the status quo elites established by the success of classical liberalism and continued progress in…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm curious, what would the differentiating topics be between a conservative and trump supporter? It seems many non-trump supporting conservatives have similar policy stances but don't like his methods/insults/etc. Or would it just be to discuss why they tolerate those factors?
By definition, a conservative is a slow-motion progressive. Ignoring that technicality, there are 3 types of republican: 1. religious 2. business (likes outsourcing and unlimited immigration to drive down wages) 3. pro-America They often hate each other. The first two groups are usually unwilling to admit that Trump has been the best president ever.
Also, do you have an answer to my question about which topics would be different between trump supporting and non-trump supporting conservatives? I know trump supporters who could fit all three of these categories. Not to mention there are probably other categories and people who fit into multiple categories.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> By definition, a conservative is a slow-motion progressive No, they aren’t. A conservative is an anti-progressive. (Classically, an anti-liberal, but that’s less clear these days, because while classical liberalism was a progressive position for its time of origin, “liberal” has been overloaded to refer to defense of the status quo elites established by the success of classical liberalism and continued progress in…
Libertarians have their own party separate from Republicans. I suppose some Republicans lean towards libertarian ideals.
Yes, pretty much every conceivable ideology in the US [0] has its own party (or more than one!) distinct from the two major parties for those adherents who don’t understand the futility of third parties under normal circumstances in the US electoral system, or who care more about ideological purity of association than acheiving policy goals through the political system, or who think that we are on the edge of a party shift where their preferred party could plausibly replace one of the two major parties (its happened twice before in US history, your party could be next!).
That doesn’t mean that many of those ideological factions that have their own parties don’t also have substantial (often, much larger) number of adherents within one, the other, or sometimes both of the major parties.
[0] For instance, a non-exhaustive list for the other factions I’ve identified as substantial Republican constituencies:
(1) Social/religious conservatives: Christian Liberty Party, Constitution Party
(3) corporate neoliberal capitalist: Unity Party, Moderate Party of Rhode Island
(4) American nationalist: Constitution Party
(5) White supremacist/nationalist: American Freedom Party, American Nazi Party