Google CEO pledges to investigate exit of top AI ethicist • Hacker News Board

Re: Google CEO pledges to investigate exit of top AI ethicist

#71

Post by krageon » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 12:47 PM UTC

bra-ket wrote: post #50

almost_usual wrote: post #35

> Cynthia Yeung, an industry veteran who spent five years at Google, put it bluntly: "Maybe the trade-off should be more clearly spelled out so researchers can make informed decisions before they accept a job offer: You get paid academic salaries in exchange for intellectual freedom, and you get paid Silicon Valley salaries in exchange for allowing your name/likeness to be used for brand/PR purposes and your research…

this case had nothing to do with censorship though. It was Gebru' unprofessional conduct - she gave ultimatum to her managers demanding to disclose names of the reviewers who criticized her work or she would resign, and broadcasting emails to entire team literally calling for sabotage. Her behavior fits the definition of 'toxic employee', it was unprofessional by any standard. Here is Jeff Dean's letter sent to the G…

If you push someone until you know they will break by being difficult and stupid to them you lose the ability to point to them and say "well that's unprofessional". Given that this is a company vs a person, odds are better than 90% that they just wanted to be rid of her and pushed her until they could.

Re: Google CEO pledges to investigate exit of top AI ethicist

#72

Post by krageon » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 12:48 PM UTC

bra-ket wrote: post #69

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By “these activists” you are referring to the Google brain researchers? Or somebody else?

I refer to the so-called SJWs ("social justice warriors"), some of them work or worked at Google like Gebru and her most vocal supporters. Others organized BLM protests for various fake causes during the summer. It's a new activism fad they primarily use to draw attention to themselves. Not a single one of these people care about objectivity nor reason. They're the religious of the new age. It's disgusting to watch r…

You've displayed multiple dogwhistles for extreme-right thinking. That doesn't mean you necessarily are, but you may want to modulate the kind of people you associate with or you might become what they are.

Re: Google CEO pledges to investigate exit of top AI ethicist

#73

Post by egberts1 » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 1:34 PM UTC

Tad bit late Mr. CEO of Google; it would makes most sense to fire HR and restore that position back to her.

Re: Google CEO pledges to investigate exit of top AI ethicist

#74

Post by sam1r » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 2:00 PM UTC

krageon wrote: post #72

bra-ket wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refer to the so-called SJWs ("social justice warriors"), some of them work or worked at Google like Gebru and her most vocal supporters. Others organized BLM protests for various fake causes during the summer. It's a new activism fad they primarily use to draw attention to themselves. Not a single one of these people care about objectivity nor reason. They're the religious of the new age. It's disgusting to watch r…

You've displayed multiple dogwhistles for extreme-right thinking. That doesn't mean you necessarily are, but you may want to modulate the kind of people you associate with or you might become what they are.

Elegantly put.

Re: Google CEO pledges to investigate exit of top AI ethicist

#75

Post by SMAAART » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 2:54 PM UTC

File under: it's better to apologize than to do the right things the first time.

Re: Google CEO pledges to investigate exit of top AI ethicist

#76

Post by thu2111 » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 2:59 PM UTC

hpoe wrote: post #14

panny wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point 1 sounds a bit like the Hundred Flowers Campaign. Mao invited critics to openly express opinions on how to improve the communist party, then one year later, rounded up those who did under the Anti-Rightist Campaign for persecution and executions.

I think there is a little bit of a difference between a prominent researcher being let go from Google and a revolutionary dictator performing a genocidal purge of people on suspicion of disloyalty.

Well, Damore was fired after being explicitly invited to give feedback. Probably anyone at Google who agrees with the firing is going to keep their head down because why risk being chopped like Damore was?

Re: Google CEO pledges to investigate exit of top AI ethicist

#77

Post by dekhn » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 3:01 PM UTC

niij wrote: post #46

Ansil849 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doxed by New York Times. Are you thinking of any specific case where the Times doxed someone for practicing intellectual freedom?

https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/06/22/nyt-is-threatening-my-...

they never published any article, and he admits he was trivially de-anonymizable so I think he overstates his case.

Re: Google CEO pledges to investigate exit of top AI ethicist

#78

Post by thu2111 » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 3:01 PM UTC

krageon wrote: post #72

bra-ket wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refer to the so-called SJWs ("social justice warriors"), some of them work or worked at Google like Gebru and her most vocal supporters. Others organized BLM protests for various fake causes during the summer. It's a new activism fad they primarily use to draw attention to themselves. Not a single one of these people care about objectivity nor reason. They're the religious of the new age. It's disgusting to watch r…

You've displayed multiple dogwhistles for extreme-right thinking. That doesn't mean you necessarily are, but you may want to modulate the kind of people you associate with or you might become what they are.

What a nasty, horrible reply. You didn't even call out what specific things you object to.

Try it on the other way around: the phrase "dog whistle" is a notorious dog whistle for extreme-left collectivist thinking. You might be surrounding yourself with extremists without realising it.

Re: Google CEO pledges to investigate exit of top AI ethicist

#79

Post by dekhn » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 3:03 PM UTC

totorovirus wrote: post #23

Anyone getting tired of those toxic PC enthusiasts who stirs a fight in a team accusing its leadership for being incorrect on sensitive issues? I don't know if Gebru actually qualifies aside the matters of ethical AI. In my experience those people who work in engineering who sidewalks into some non-engineering matters often lack skills to compete where most do, and decided to leverage their incompetency with some oth…

She is eminently qualified to do ML research, and established an excellent position in ethical ML. I don't think this is a fair criticism of her abilities.

Re: Google CEO pledges to investigate exit of top AI ethicist

#80

Post by thu2111 » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 3:03 PM UTC

pseingatl wrote: post #51

Three times he uses the word "departure" as if this were her decision. The last reference uses the word "left," reinforcing the position that Google didn't fire her. Have no doubt: this CYA text was massaged and went through several HR and in-house GC revisions, and maybe even a few round-trips to outside labor litigation counsel. In other words, this statement is pure CYA and litigation-defensive. They're terrified…

In what legal universe could she claim any damages at all, after making it clear that she was quite happy to resign if her ultimatum wasn't met? And with no evidence anywhere that her 'departure' was racially motivated? Are Californian courts really so biased that they'd see racism in a situation where the employee had been planning to sue her own employer, in an at will state?