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FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

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431–440 of 736 posts

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#431

In all of these threads on Apple, Google, Facebook and friends, its fascinating that the overall tone and position of technologists has changed over time from radical cyberpunk freedom to "monopolies aren't that bad really".

It's absolutely wild and hugely depressing to me that the prevailing tone favors the mega-corporations. The current over-consolidation is a disaster in every industry, and tech is no exception. Nearly every one of these organizations has proven to be a bad faith actor who cannot be effectively regulated. It's time to actually do something about it.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#432
post #316

When the same thing is going to happen to the Match group (Tinder, Okc, hinge, match,...)? In their case this is 100% obvious that they buy any new dating app in order to keep their monopoly and the result is clearly bad for the users

We need a really big ticket trust-bust to begin a new era of de-consolidation. Breaking up Match just isn't exciting enough right now.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#433
post #380
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get USD for BTC right now, you've been able to get if for nearly a decade and there have never been as many reputable exchanges as there are now.

The exchanges tend to "go down for maintenance" on any big price swing.

Evidence? I've been in crypto a long time and have never experienced this.

I'm not saying it's never happened, but implying it's some sort of repeating pattern is simply false.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walmart paid for the products on their shelves. Amazon does not pay for most of the products you can buy on Amazon. The difference, in case it's not clear: Walmart is the manufacturers' primary customer, so it's irrelevant from their point of view what products Walmart chooses to sell in its stores. The third-party sellers are the manufacturer's customers. The manufacturers still get paid either way. But we're not co…

Walmart pays for some products on their shelves. Companies pay for product placement: Sometimes, it is a mix - deeply reduced prices for a holiday display, for example. Soft drinks are often serviced by the local distributor, and they pay only for what is sold: If wal-mart is anything like the pharmacy I worked at, magazines and greeting cards are similar (only pay for what is sold, credited for the rest, and a rep p…

No, Walmart pays for nearly all the products on their shelves, except for new products which might be sold on a consignment basis.

Companies paying for product placement does not change the simple truth that Walmart has paid for the product (in the legal and financial sense, even if they haven't actually forked over the cash in the actual/economic sense), and the supplier is paying for product placement through discounts or other non-cash consideration.

If wal-mart is anything like the pharmacy I worked at, magazines and greeting cards are similar (only pay for what is sold, credited for the rest, and a rep probably takes care of stocking things).

No, Walmart and Target are not like the pharmacy you worked for. Target and RiteAid were former clients, I know exactly how they paid for their inventory.

Moreover, the market for books, magazines, newspapers, and other printed material is different from other products. With print material, publishers provide discounts or credits for unsold copies against newer books/issues because the value of the unsold periodicals rapidly drops to zero after the period passes, and book stores that get burned with unsaleable books generally refuse to stock new books from that publisher if they are not provided incentives (by the publisher) to do so. Note that publishers will usually not credit book stores for best sellers like Harry Potter, etc., because the threat to not carry future best sellers is more likely to backfire on the bookstore than it is on the publisher.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#435
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment says "there's no way." I can think of at least one which involves a user manually downloading the data and then manually uploading it to another service.

That's not the problem. The problem is that if I export my social graph and share it with another company, it includes information about who my friends are -- at the very least, it shows that they are my friends. That violates their privacy. Maybe they did not want their relationship with me to be known outside the social network where they established it.

If your friend isn't a user of the company to which the data is exported, then maybe that friend's data could be served from FB's servers, or your own, and only decypted client side. This of course cuts them off from being able to monetize swaths of user data which isn't unilaterally owned by one user, but it would be privacy respecting to your friend wouldn't it? Open protocols with medical-data like regulation right?

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walmart paid for the products on their shelves. Amazon does not pay for most of the products you can buy on Amazon. The difference, in case it's not clear: Walmart is the manufacturers' primary customer, so it's irrelevant from their point of view what products Walmart chooses to sell in its stores. The third-party sellers are the manufacturer's customers. The manufacturers still get paid either way. But we're not co…

> Amazon does not pay for most of the products you can buy on Amazon. “Sold and shipped by Amazon.com” means that Amazon actually bought that product and is storing it at their warehouse.

More than half of the products sold on Amazon are not sold by Amazon.com. ( https://www.marketplacepulse.com/articles/amazons-retail-bus...)

And a portion of the products that can be purchased from "Amazon.com" (the seller) are JIT orders that Amazon places with the supplier. This is why some products on Amazon are perpetually never "in stock" until a future date on the store listing page; Amazon has made the decision based on sales data to only order those products on demand. In such cases, the supplier will usually ship to Amazon for transshipment to the customer, but depending on the cost of logistics, Amazon may have them ship directly to the customer.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#437

I can't help but step back and look at the trade wars between the US and China. China is gaining ground fast. US on the otherhand is turning to infighting by suing FB, Google and Amazon. Countries win through innovation. It's hard to innovate with such distractions. China must be happy cheering on its tech companies while the US is on the sidelines. Go figure...

On the other hand, it’s not unreasonable to believe that monopolies stifle innovation. Although Peter Thiel claims the opposite:

“Monopolies drive progress because the promise of years or even decades of monopoly profits provides a powerful incentive to innovate. Then monopolies can keep innovating because profits enable them to make the long-term plans and finance the ambitious research projects that firms locked in competition can't dream of.”

Is he right? Looking at FB and Google, I don’t see much innovation on their core products: search and social.

Google’s autocomplete has improved, but in my anecdotal experience the search results have gotten worse. Certainly the UX is the same. Surely there are ways improve on a single list of results beyond a sidebar of knowledge graph information for known entities?

With FB, for all their efforts to tune my feed, I still see the same uninteresting content, even if I do occasionally snooze a “friend” for one too many dank memes. If anything, I see less relevant and compelling posts on my feed than ever before.

And yet I do love what I see from Google and Facebook in their ML research, and Thiel seems right that the massive resources put into those long-term projects only come from monopoly profits.

So it isn’t that a monopoly isn’t innovating, it’s just that they aren’t innovating on the value that is provided to their users. They are innovating on what can make them more money. With having conquered their markets and bought or bullied their competitors, they no longer have to make users happier with a significantly better core product. Instead, making more money requires innovating on their monetization products, or on side-products.

As a monopoly, the biggest risk is taking risks with their core product. But risk is where innovation happens. You might argue that their side-products carry risk, but what risk is there to well-paid well-funded workers on a subsidized side-product whose liquidity depends more on executives’ happiness than users’ happiness? What happens when you are making what capitalists want instead of what users want? If you’re a startup founder with meddling investors, you know what I’m talking about.

So although Thiel’s advice to aim for being a monopoly is relevant for creating a successful startup (in a tautological way), his arguments that monopolies are engines of innovation aren’t convincing.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supermarkets do not pay for product as you describe. Manufacturers and/or distributors pay the supermarkets slotting fees to get their products on the shelves. Additionally, slotting fees are higher for ideal shelf location, and in some cases proximity to competitor products. For example, the bottom shelves are undesirable. And then you have end caps which are highly desirable.

Slotting fees are real, but of course supermarkets pay for the product. How else would the manufacturer be paid? The fee is basically paying for the right to shelf space, but the supermarket still buys the product to fill the shelves. Also, not all supermarkets, including not all large chains, have such fees.

They're paid when the product clears.

Many big chains like Walmart and Best Buy don't own a significant portion of inventory on shelves or in warehouses. The manufacturers own the inventory up until the products are paid for by the customer.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#439

Honestly, while I have my doubts about this succeeding, it nevertheless feels like the big tech suit most likely to succeed. Amazon promoting its own brands isn't much different from a supermarket offering its own brand items. Apple isn't a monopoly in phones because of Android. And Google's search is so inherently tied to selling ads as a business model that separating them is a difficult argument -- plus search com…

> But FB, IG and WhatsApp are clearly separate products, all very much monopolies in their markets A lot of companies are like that, one could think that it's "easy" to split up Google Maps from Gmail and Google Calendar, or Office 360 from Azure and Windows, or Salesforce and Slack and ...

FB IG and Whatsap are not complementary orthogonal or products in the same way Maps/Search or 360 and azure are.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon promoting its own brands isn't much different from a supermarket offering its own brand items. Amazon promoting its own brands is completely different from a supermarket offering its own brand items. You're confusing a bazaar with a retail store; the two are nothing alike legally or economically. The supermarket pays for everything on its store shelves (except, rarely, for certain new products on a consignment…

Thus, it is irrelevant to the manufacturer whether the supermarket promotes their store-brand product or the name brand product; they've already been paid by their primary customer. That might be true if Safeway is going to buy the same number of cereal boxes from you every quarter, but that's not what happens. Stores adjust their purchases based on what sells, so if Safeway starts promoting their own cereal then the…

That might be true if Safeway is going to buy the same number of cereal boxes from you every quarter, but that's not what happens. Stores adjust their purchases based on what sells, so if Safeway starts promoting their own cereal then they will start buying less of yours.

You do know that the companies that make the name brand cereals...also make the store brand cereals...

It's about market fit. Price sensitive customers would generally not buy name brand because it's too expensive, and the brands don't won't lower-priced products to "sully" the image of the brand. Hence, they sell white label (aka store brand) products to retail stores that are generally lower quality and thus cheaper.

Supermarkets frequently charge slotting fees to appear on their shelves.

Yes, some do. For new products that they wouldn't otherwise stock on the shelves, because it's in lieu of the anticipated lost revenue from saleable products that would otherwise have gone on the shelves. Note that slotting fees are used alongside consignment arrangements.

Supermarkets often have contracts where they can return stock to suppliers if it is defective or not selling well and do not always own their stock.

Yes, but they've still paid for those products in the first place (in the legal/accounting sense). Refunds come in the form of discounts or credits on future invoices.

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