Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation • Hacker News Board

Re: Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation

#121

Post by mgh2 » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 10:51 PM UTC

omarforgotpwd wrote: post #110

clort wrote: post #10

There are lots of problems here and it seems to me that Tesla is being a bully. Cristina Balan has a fundraiser page, at https://www.gofundme.com/f/a86fmm-fighting-tesla-for-defamin... and there is some text there from her, setting out some facts as she has seen them.

Cristina and Russ Mitchell and are both part of the TSLAQ short selling / anti-Tesla hate group. They've bullied and victimized dozens of Tesla customers in their quest to smear Tesla and Musk. Just my perspective on what I've seen following these people for a few years. They also failed to mention that Cristina already lost the lawsuit once. Now she is appealing, which she has the right to do. I wish her the best of…

"More than 1,000 lawsuits have been filed against Tesla and Musk, a number of them alleging defamation"

It will be nice if the article provided a reference to other specific employee defamation cases, by not lumping them altogether.

Ex: https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/11/news/companies/tesla-elon-m...

https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/19/21446587/judge-dismiss-de...

But who knows, in the US lawsuits are easy to make up, just expensive (lawyers getting the last laugh). Short sellers might just be doing that...The article could as well be fraud...or bad journalism (not checking sources), which sadly, happens more often than not.

Who is telling the truth? The short sellers and whistleblowers or Tesla and their fans/stockholders?

PS: this piece was initially flagged by HN users and since (thankfully) unflagged by moderator.

Re: Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation

#122

Post by grumple » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 10:53 PM UTC

justanotherhn wrote: post #89

This is hilarious, her gofundme is mostly funded by Tesla Shortsellers and they're not even hiding it... I haven't read her claims but this is amusing. Gregory Reyes $5,000 (shortseller) Donna Walker $1,212 (shortseller) NetflixAndLamp $1,000 (shortseller) DIP Harambe $500 (shortseller) Machine Planet $500 (shortseller) Paul Shust $250 (shortseller) Naked Shortseller $100 (shortseller) Oslo Skeptic $100 (shortseller)…

So? That just means Musk has enemies. That doesn't say anything about the truth of her claims.

Re: Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation

#123

Post by m463 » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 10:55 PM UTC

clort wrote: post #10

There are lots of problems here and it seems to me that Tesla is being a bully. Cristina Balan has a fundraiser page, at https://www.gofundme.com/f/a86fmm-fighting-tesla-for-defamin... and there is some text there from her, setting out some facts as she has seen them.

Also they didn't solve the floormat issue.

The floormats are stupid.

Each floormat has 4 round smooth patches about 3" in diameter underneath near each corner. Then 4 adhesive velcro patches 3" in diameter are stuck to them.

Then, there are 4 velcro hockey-puck things with screw threads that are screwed into the base carpet in the passenger footwell.

You put the removable carpet in place and the hockey puck velcro sticks to the under carpet velcro and it stays in place.

Except in a hot car the velcro to carpet adhesive gets soft and the carpet comes loose.

Re: Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation

#124

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 11:08 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #119

bambax wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inadmissible in court, but you can always leak to the press and see what happens.

At the risk of attracting more downvotes, I persist. The problem with corporate malfeasance and bullying, of which Elon Musk seems to be a specialist, is that people are afraid to retaliate. We shouldn't be afraid. I personally sued big corporations, as an individual, two times, and won. Granted, this was in Europe, not the US, but the warnings and hand-waving of people telling me one should never do that were simila…

[deleted]

Re: Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation

#125

Post by microtherion » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 11:14 PM UTC

CogitoCogito wrote: post #111

justanotherhn wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He faced a tone of consequences, just not criminal or civil charges in a court.

> He faced a tone of consequences, just not criminal or civil charges in a court. I never could understand how what he said wasn't considered defamation. If that's not defamation, what is?

The US has a very high standard for "defamation" against "public figures" and a very low barrier to be considered a "public figure". By US standards, the diver was a "public figure", and Musk's insulting comment was not defamation, because it was hyperbolic (comparable to when Hustler Magazine published a fake ad about Jerry Falwell having sex with his mother in an outhouse).

Bottom line is that it's very hard to win defamation cases in the US. The Tesla engineer might have a shot because she was not well known, and Tesla accused her of very specific acts (moonlighting, unapproved travel) and they knew those accusations to be false. On the other hand, these were not exactly crimes, so who knows.

Re: Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation

#126

Post by anchpop » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 11:21 PM UTC

Traster wrote: post #109

clort wrote: post #10

There are lots of problems here and it seems to me that Tesla is being a bully. Cristina Balan has a fundraiser page, at https://www.gofundme.com/f/a86fmm-fighting-tesla-for-defamin... and there is some text there from her, setting out some facts as she has seen them.

Bullying is when I push you over and take your milk. Tesla isn't a bully, Tesla has been part of the corporate capture of the American legal system, the CEO can literally call you a pedofile and be found not guilty of libel. If you're not powerful enough you can't even get a lawyer to represent you.

I'm actually unsure, is calling someone (let's say a private citizen rather an a celebrity) a pedophile based on flimsy reasoning illegal in the US?

Re: Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation

#127

Post by ketamine__ » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 11:55 PM UTC

dundarious wrote: post #120

ketamine__ wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it written so poorly?

As mentioned in the article, she is from Romania and representing herself, so there is no legal team assisting her. I think non-idiomatic English does not make it "written so poorly" if that's what you are referring to.

Sure, that doesn't make it written poorly. But it is written poorly.

Re: Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation

#128

Post by pbreit » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 12:13 AM UTC

shuntress wrote: post #66

pbreit wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can they build in a mechanism to mitigate baseless flagging?

"most of the time dang unflags them" is that mechanism. If I found a reliable way to automate the recognition of bad-faith user interactions I would sell it to google and retire before bringing it to HN. edit: Also, apparently, users can "vouch" for posts which presumably is just the inverse of flagging a post.

Well, for example, deducting karma (or whatever) from people who flag stuff that dang unflags.

Re: Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation

#129

Post by mgh2 » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 12:21 AM UTC

clort wrote: post #10

There are lots of problems here and it seems to me that Tesla is being a bully. Cristina Balan has a fundraiser page, at https://www.gofundme.com/f/a86fmm-fighting-tesla-for-defamin... and there is some text there from her, setting out some facts as she has seen them.

Balan's podcast interview, mentioned on fundraiser page: https://podtail.com/en/podcast/tslaq-podcast/episode-41-inte...

Re: Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation

#130

Post by root_axis » Thu, Dec 10, 2020, 12:33 AM UTC

pb7 wrote: post #113

Traster wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullying is when I push you over and take your milk. Tesla isn't a bully, Tesla has been part of the corporate capture of the American legal system, the CEO can literally call you a pedofile and be found not guilty of libel. If you're not powerful enough you can't even get a lawyer to represent you.

Perhaps our legal system found that there is no evidence of libel and you are picking and choosing which legal decisions you agree with despite all being as part of the same system.

I'm no lawyer, but the fact that Elon got off on that just seems wrong. Elon's claims were completely made up and also specifically crafted to harm the victim's reputation with respect to the particular context of the accusation - baselessly labeling a man who risked his life to save children as a person that sexually abuses children. What a disgusting act. Elon is extremely famous, if that doesn't count as libel what does?