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FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

ftc.gov

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Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#171

Post by theanarcrist »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #155

I feel like instead of pushing for the companies to separate, congress should pass laws mandating [adversarial interoperability]( https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interopera... ). Then the data (including the social graph) really would belong to the users, and facebook would have to compete with multiple other “social network clients” that would rapidly emerge. Facebook would lose some monopoly profi…

I agree and find the attempt at a breakup a bit frustrating. This is an action that could have profoundly disruptive effect and it's not really clear what the positives or negatives would be. For instance, FB has invested massively in trust and safety people operations and AI. What happens to that investment when IG is spun off?

Laying out laws and regulations so the market works as intended (no doubt with adjustments on the way) seems like the far preferable way to ensure healthy competition than taking a hammer to the job site and hoping for the best.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#172

Post by dontblink »

hans1729 wrote: post #15

Lets hope they push through with it and follow up with Google. Its about time - its ridiculous how incredibly powerful these institutions have become. Question: is there an argument not to split up these gigantic corporations?

Yes. I would imagine it revolves around demonstrating harm. Just because something is big doesn't necessitate a break up.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#173

Post by UhDev »

annadane wrote: post #87
Grazester wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the same note, a relative asked me the same thing when they IPO.I thought if Google could make money selling ads why couldn't Facebook. I bought in at IPO price for them. I sold for them about 2 years ago when the price was dropping due to privacy scandals.

Why the hell is HN so downvote happy?

Why can't I downvote?

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#174

Post by Wowfunhappy »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #155

I feel like instead of pushing for the companies to separate, congress should pass laws mandating [adversarial interoperability]( https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interopera... ). Then the data (including the social graph) really would belong to the users, and facebook would have to compete with multiple other “social network clients” that would rapidly emerge. Facebook would lose some monopoly profi…

In an ideal world, I'd like both. Mandated interoperability would help a great deal—but I also don't believe Facebook should ever have been allowed to buy Whatsapp, and it's worth undoing that.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#175

Post by croes »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #155

I feel like instead of pushing for the companies to separate, congress should pass laws mandating [adversarial interoperability]( https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interopera... ). Then the data (including the social graph) really would belong to the users, and facebook would have to compete with multiple other “social network clients” that would rapidly emerge. Facebook would lose some monopoly profi…

You can't really compete with FAANG. They are too big. They just destroy or buy all competitors. Especially Facebook.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#176

Post by crazygringo »

rtlfe wrote: post #76

How would splitting Instagram work from a technical perspective? Engineers have spent 8 years building shared code and data centers for FB and IG. I'd expect it would take hundreds of people and multiple years to untangle them.

The thing is, technically it's actually far more difficult to integrate than it is to separate.

Facebook has been trying to make it appear that integration will make separation impossible.

But the reality is, you simply duplicate the databases and whatever shared services they depend on, and create a "stub" FB backend for IG, and a "stub" IG backend for FB for the shared services to work... and they go on their merry independent ways, while engineers remove things that depend on the stubs at their leisure.

Obviously it's not trivial (and involves the inherent complexities of any datacenter migration), and doing it without downtime is a whole separate beast, but it's not impossible or so wildly difficult it can't be carried out. In other words, there's zero reason it should be a factor in the legal outcome.

At most, there would be an IP issue -- e.g. would the spun-out IG be permitted to have a stubbed FB backend, and vice-versa -- but that's easily solved by providing those permissions as part of the separation agreement, with a timeline to remove them (e.g. 2 years).

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#177

Post by TylerE »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #139
Grazester wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the same note, a relative asked me the same thing when they IPO.I thought if Google could make money selling ads why couldn't Facebook. I bought in at IPO price for them. I sold for them about 2 years ago when the price was dropping due to privacy scandals.

I've been giving the wrong answer to "Should I buy Bitcoin" since 2011 or so. I was bearish on Amazon when its stock was at 60 because its P/E ratio was ridiculous. I've learned to just be comfortable with the fact that I'm wrong a lot.

You're not necessarily wrong. It's a long held truism that the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#178

Post by bilal4hmed »

mrlala wrote: post #163
bilal4hmed wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Line, Viber, Telegram, Signal, Matrix etc etc.....there is so much competition in the messaging space.

WhatsApp is basically the norm outside of the US from what I can tell? So yeah, there's really no "competition". Either you have whatsapp or you don't talk to people. And it's highly used for cross-business communication in Europe, I can tell you that.

It seems its no competition because people like it not because there are no other options, because there are plenty

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#179

Post by kossae »

jcfrei wrote: post #156
gamblor956 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, after skimming through the PDF of the complaint ( https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1910134fbco... ), it appears the FTC is not seeking that remedy. It appears VR is still too small of a market for them to care about.

Seems a bit short-sighted because if Oculus becomes the dominant VR platform that Facebook envisions it to be then it's going to dwarf instagram in terms of economic importance (for advertisers and users) over the long term.

I think the FTC will deal with that as it comes. Including that in this case would be speculating the future of the Oculus business.
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