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FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

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Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#131
post #35

Monopoly of what? Some other social networks I use every day or so: Twitter, LinkedIn, TikTok and various forums and communities like this one, which in my mind are pretty similar to a social network. And since WhatsApp is a chat app, how about all the other chat apps I am using? iMessage, Slack, Teams. Does this action has any merit or is it just the usual political posturing and games?

From the article, the claim is:

> illegally maintaining its personal social networking monopoly

"Monopoly" is a term that's fairly overloaded/misunderstood; while in economics refers specifically to a situation where there is a single supplier for a good/service (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly#Market_structures), in the legal definition "monopoly power" is defined much more loosely, as "the power to control prices or exclude competition" in the US (e.g. https://www.justice.gov/atr/competition-and-monopoly-single-...), and there are complex tests for monopoly power in the EU including >50% market share which I'm less familiar with.

I think common discourse tends to interpret monopoly in the economics sense, which leads to confusion when we look at antitrust enforcement like this. Not to mention that under antitrust laws you don't even need to have (loosely defined) "monopoly power" to be engaging in illegal anticompetitive behaviors.

Specifically analyzing those competitors:

LinkedIn is a business social network, not a personal social network as they define it. Forums are not "social networks" as commonly defined (graph of relationships).

Twitter is a competitor, but they have far less market share, e.g. see https://www.t4.ai/industry/social-media-market-share#:~:text... which puts Facebook at 69% of social media users, (a monopoly in most definitions), while twitter is at ~8%. Somewhat confounding because users can be on both, but the magnitudes are what's important.

TikTok is a valid competitor too, but again they don't have nearly as dominant a position as Facebook https://datareportal.com/social-media-users?rq=tiktok.

I think Ben Thompson has the best analysis of antitrust as it pertains to Facebook, as he deeply understands the market dynamics that give Facebook and other large tech companies their market power, e.g. see https://stratechery.com/2017/manifestos-and-monopolies/.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#132
This is the most boneheaded move from the US government ever. This will hurt the US position on the Internet. It will also cause Silicon Valley salaries to go lower. Developers are getting paid high salaries because of Google and Facebook; any moves to split these companies into smaller companies will cause the salaries to drop, as smaller companies will not be able to pay the salaries Google and Facebook pay to its employees.

This will hurt the Valley.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#133

When Facebook first went public, an older relative asked me if he should invest in Facebook. My only insight was being an internet user at the time and I said no, there was no reason that Facebook wouldn’t be another MySpace. Facebook's only value was their users and users were historically very finicky and moved around platforms at will. I argued that Facebook would make no money and wouldn’t be around in a couple o…

Bought all the platforms people were going to jump to. The "Onvao Protect" traffic snooping VPN to identify what up and coming products people were using was one particularly shady part of this strategy.

You didn't need any traffic snooping to notice millions of Instagram and WhatsApp users. Acquisitions were no brainer for Facebook.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#135
Facebook feels like a punching bag to me but not the company I am most concerned about from an anti-trust perspective. I am more concerned about the amount of market influence and power wrapped up in Google (Search and Ads), Microsoft (able to freely steal ideas like Slack and turn it into Teams by leveraging O365), Amazon (amassed capital letting them compete in any segment), Apple (acquiring companies and then over-verticalizing) etc. We need a revision of anti-trust law for the modern era, to encourage competition against these giant conglomerates.

I think there will be a lot of ancillary benefits from breaking up these organizations that should be welcome to all parts of the political spectrum. Distribution of market power means distribution of financial outcomes as well. It lowers barriers for others to challenge incumbents. It allows companies to decentralize from a few overly-powerful city-states. And so on.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#136
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the hell is HN so downvote happy?

> Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. > Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Yes, but it's also clear that there's something very funny going on here, rules be damned

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#137

If you work at Facebook it's time to seriously consider leaving to avoid damage to your own brand. Future employers are going to be scrutinizing your record and will ask you difficult questions about why you stuck by Facebook despite an overwhelming consensus that they are damaging to the global social fabric.

For better or worse, I really doubt this matters. Even Bill Gates has cleaned up his reputation, let alone engineers who worked at MS in monopoly days. I don't think anyone that was there at the time is worried about how it reflects on them personally.

> Even Bill Gates has cleaned up his reputation

It's amazing what a few billion dollars of charitable donations can buy you. This is called "fumigating your fortune".

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bought all the platforms people were going to jump to. The "Onvao Protect" traffic snooping VPN to identify what up and coming products people were using was one particularly shady part of this strategy.

You didn't need any traffic snooping to notice millions of Instagram and WhatsApp users. Acquisitions were no brainer for Facebook.

> Acquisitions were no brainer for Facebook.

And hindsight is 20/20.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#139

When Facebook first went public, an older relative asked me if he should invest in Facebook. My only insight was being an internet user at the time and I said no, there was no reason that Facebook wouldn’t be another MySpace. Facebook's only value was their users and users were historically very finicky and moved around platforms at will. I argued that Facebook would make no money and wouldn’t be around in a couple o…

On the same note, a relative asked me the same thing when they IPO.I thought if Google could make money selling ads why couldn't Facebook. I bought in at IPO price for them. I sold for them about 2 years ago when the price was dropping due to privacy scandals.

I've been giving the wrong answer to "Should I buy Bitcoin" since 2011 or so. I was bearish on Amazon when its stock was at 60 because its P/E ratio was ridiculous. I've learned to just be comfortable with the fact that I'm wrong a lot.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the hell is HN so downvote happy?

Reddit is here. It has been a swift decline notable in the last year or so. Sadly. Even fairly uncontroversial assertions of fact are downvoted frequently

> Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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