Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

ftc.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 736 posts

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#51

Post by jb1991 »

nickpp wrote: post #35

Monopoly of what? Some other social networks I use every day or so: Twitter, LinkedIn, TikTok and various forums and communities like this one, which in my mind are pretty similar to a social network. And since WhatsApp is a chat app, how about all the other chat apps I am using? iMessage, Slack, Teams. Does this action has any merit or is it just the usual political posturing and games?

> iMessage, Slack, Teams

These don’t really compete with WhatsApp, which is cross platform, not tied to an employer, doesn’t require an invitation, subscription, friend network, setup to use, among other things.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#52

Post by jfb »

mmastrac wrote: post #9
minimaxir wrote: post #2

Key line: > The FTC is seeking a permanent injunction in federal court that could, among other things: require divestitures of assets, including Instagram and WhatsApp

Splitting those two properties off would be fantastic. I know it's a pipe dream, but an independent Oculus would make me so happy. I suspect this is impossible due to the early nature of the VR market. Maybe just an FTC requirement _not_ to require a FB login?

Oculus doesn't present a monopoly concern in advertising, though.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#53

Post by jb1991 »

paulpauper wrote: post #48
nickpp wrote: post #35

Monopoly of what? Some other social networks I use every day or so: Twitter, LinkedIn, TikTok and various forums and communities like this one, which in my mind are pretty similar to a social network. And since WhatsApp is a chat app, how about all the other chat apps I am using? iMessage, Slack, Teams. Does this action has any merit or is it just the usual political posturing and games?

Likely just posturing and games. Looking at the share price, the market is not concerned. This is not at all like the DOJ suing MSFT in 1998. Likely FB will settle or it will be forgotten or overturned by incoming Biden admiration.

Forgotten?

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#54

Post by dsr_ »

SerLava wrote: post #26
samfisher83 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they were three separate companies wouldn't Mark still have voting control of all three companies?

I don't think so? Can anyone answer this definitively?

The FTC could, potentially, require:

1. That FB split into N independent companies, whereupon each share of FB would become 1 share in each of N companies.

2. That the supermajor shareholders (say, more than 10% of any company) each pick at most one company to retain that interest in, and sell off shares in the other companies until they had less than 10% of each of those).

3. That the new companies avoid overlapping directors.

It would be a long time in court. See the breakup of AT&T.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#55

Post by [deleted] »

lbsnake7 wrote: post #30

When Facebook first went public, an older relative asked me if he should invest in Facebook. My only insight was being an internet user at the time and I said no, there was no reason that Facebook wouldn’t be another MySpace. Facebook's only value was their users and users were historically very finicky and moved around platforms at will. I argued that Facebook would make no money and wouldn’t be around in a couple o…

[deleted]

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#56

Post by burtonator »

nickpp wrote: post #35

Monopoly of what? Some other social networks I use every day or so: Twitter, LinkedIn, TikTok and various forums and communities like this one, which in my mind are pretty similar to a social network. And since WhatsApp is a chat app, how about all the other chat apps I am using? iMessage, Slack, Teams. Does this action has any merit or is it just the usual political posturing and games?

The term 'monopoly' is confusing because the pedantic definition is that there's only one player but this isn't the legal definition.

It's not actually illegal to be a monopoly but to illegally abuse your market position leading to anti-competitive behavior.

Unfortunately, it's never enforce properly as the FTC doesn't have any teeth.

I think the only way we're going to solve this is to actually TAX these companies appropriately. This is one of the major reasons they metastasize.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#57

Post by echelon »

paulpauper wrote: post #44
lbsnake7 wrote: post #30

When Facebook first went public, an older relative asked me if he should invest in Facebook. My only insight was being an internet user at the time and I said no, there was no reason that Facebook wouldn’t be another MySpace. Facebook's only value was their users and users were historically very finicky and moved around platforms at will. I argued that Facebook would make no money and wouldn’t be around in a couple o…

lol should have consulted me. been bullish on long on FB since the $30s . Facebook was greatly profitable from the start. Fakebook's ad platform is a money-printing machine, similar to that of Google. Buying Instagram sealed the deal, killing its potentially biggest competitor.

That's good for you, but your tone is a little self-congratulatory here.

Not everybody's mental model of the world matches how events play out. It's a hard problem and a lot of folks conflate ideals with reality. It's also hard to see the big picture if you focus on certain aspects. It also doesn't help that not everyone plays with the same rule set.

Sometimes the more you know the harder it becomes.

It's hard.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#58

Post by CPLX »

nickpp wrote: post #35

Monopoly of what? Some other social networks I use every day or so: Twitter, LinkedIn, TikTok and various forums and communities like this one, which in my mind are pretty similar to a social network. And since WhatsApp is a chat app, how about all the other chat apps I am using? iMessage, Slack, Teams. Does this action has any merit or is it just the usual political posturing and games?

This is a constant misconception in these discussions but antitrust litigation and penalties don't require there to be a monopoly.

The allegation here is anti-competitive behavior. There are plenty of things you an do that are anti-competitive and illegal without actually achieving a monopoly. The classic example is price fixing but there are many others.

Unsurprisingly, the actual linked article in this thread spells out these allegations of anti-competitive actions on Facebook's part.

Re: FTC Sues Facebook for Illegal Monopolization

#60

Post by tarboreus »

samfisher83 wrote: post #19
SerLava wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge. I'm glad Zuckerberg is probably panicking.

Even if they were three separate companies wouldn't Mark still have voting control of all three companies?

I think divestiture would mean a full spin-off to an independent entity.
Post reply on HN