EU countries team up for semiconductor push • Hacker News Board

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#431

Post by filoleg » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 7:33 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #106

Aerroon wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is ahead of the US in crude steel production, but we're about 6 times behind China.[0] ARM is in the UK and not the EU. It's owned by a Japanese company and soon an American one. Does Europe do that well in pharmaceuticals? It looks to me like the US is leading in biomedical research publications. [1] Some European countries are ahead when measured per capita, but only some and that's not an important figure h…

>ARM is in the UK Except that ARM has many offices outside the UK developing important IP. Their Mali Bifrost and Valhall GPU architectures are mainly developed in Scandinavia by former Falanx Microsystems of Norway, aquired by ARM in 2006, hence the norse naming.

>Their Mali Bifrost and Valhall GPU architectures are mainly developed in Scandinavia by former Falanx Microsystems of Norway

Sidenote: Norway is not a part of the EU.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#432

Post by 908B64B197 » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 7:35 PM UTC

aweb wrote: post #45

jeromenerf wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Is there anything impactful that is somehow European (not from a single European country, but as a collaboration between) with the exception of airbus and CERN? It’s not that there aren’t skills and talents in space, cars, pharma, construction, energy, etc. Edit: clarification.

ESA/Ariane for instance, which works pretty well

The current Ariane V is interesting.

It was designed to launch a crewed vehicle that never materialized and is too big and too costly for most commercial applications.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#433

Post by cromka » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 7:35 PM UTC

MangoCoffee wrote: post #295

rossdavidh wrote: post #254

So, as someone who used to be an engineer in semiconductor manufacturing facilities, this reminds me a lot of Sematech. That was a joint venture between American companies in the 90's, when there was a concern that we were falling behind Japan. I'm sure there will be people who try to claim otherwise, but my view from inside AMD (at that time still doing its own manufacturing) was that nothing much ever came out of S…

>If, at the time of the founding of TSMC, you had tried to get a consortium of companies, much less nations, to agree on the idea of a semiconductor foundry, you would not have been able to get agreement to do it. Consortiums can help to pool resources when everyone knows what needs doing TSMC or its ecosystem is already like a consortium. this semiwiki article point that out. https://semiwiki.com/semiconductor-manuf…

Just wondering if in the light of this announcement and the China's attempts at taking over the TMSC control, wouldn't it be better if TMSC relocated their HQ to Europe?

Not saying they should move completely, but to strategize to limit their operational risks. I am sure they'd receive some nice grants from EU.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#434

Post by romanoderoma » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 7:35 PM UTC

tristor wrote: post #407

mlyle wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe's done big multinational technical-political things many times to varying levels of success. Don't forget Gaileo, Arianespace, Airbus's parent EADS, the ESA, etc. They tend to not be super capital efficient, but the sheer amount of wealth and resources tend to make things that are priorities not completely fail. > P.S: a lot of the young in Europe are learning english because they want to get the f--- out the…

> What factors make you want to get out? As an American who's spent a lot of time in both the US and Continental Europe (and elsewhere) I don't see any terrific suck. At the risk of speaking out of turn, I've traveled extensively outside the US and befriended a lot of folks and had discussions on this topic with them. I would summarize my findings as such: 1. Economic Mobility: In Europe economic mobility, on average…

Welfare plays a big role as well.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#435

Post by nixass » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 7:38 PM UTC

tristor wrote: post #407

mlyle wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe's done big multinational technical-political things many times to varying levels of success. Don't forget Gaileo, Arianespace, Airbus's parent EADS, the ESA, etc. They tend to not be super capital efficient, but the sheer amount of wealth and resources tend to make things that are priorities not completely fail. > P.S: a lot of the young in Europe are learning english because they want to get the f--- out the…

> What factors make you want to get out? As an American who's spent a lot of time in both the US and Continental Europe (and elsewhere) I don't see any terrific suck. At the risk of speaking out of turn, I've traveled extensively outside the US and befriended a lot of folks and had discussions on this topic with them. I would summarize my findings as such: 1. Economic Mobility: In Europe economic mobility, on average…

Worth noting that many Americans I know in Europe, have no plans to ever come back, they don't see USA as an option anymore once experienced life here. Source: work for FAANG, I see many one way relocations US>EU, not so much other way around.

Furthermore: 1. yeah, triple the money, quadruple the life costs, and no social security safety net, or at least poor one. 2. what? 3. FREEDOM - very US centric view on the "freedom"

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#436

Post by Daho0n » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 7:38 PM UTC

bazooka_penguin wrote: post #238

ralfn wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most competitive chips in the world are produced by machines made in the Netherlands at ASMI/ASML The US companies do what they do best: innovate business models and find ways to vendor lock in and own the market. But who's been doing all the research keeping moore's law alive? Lithography? For a country as small as the Netherlands, you can wonder if we could afford from a geopolitical point of view to be producing a…

ASML is heavily reliant on the IP of Cymer an American company they bought in the last decade. And a great deal of their R&D is in the US, including things like software, measurement systems and sensors, robotics and automation, and so forth. What the US does best is quietly prop up international companies like ASML (and ARM, whose texas R&D center has been the leader for years) that wouldn't be able to hack it on th…

Go back to /r/murica please.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#437

Post by dbspin » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 7:39 PM UTC

nixass wrote: post #427

rgblambda wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>the English language can become the lingua franca with less resistance as it is no ones language(Well, there are the Irish but it's a small country). Malta also has English as an official language, though again, it's an even smaller country. On the other hand, in neither Ireland or Malta is English the "first" official language.

While Irish/Gaelic language is a thing it's mostly ceremonial and people on the street know it poorly, with no knowledge to even superficial conversation. Irish language has no use in Ireland. Even tho it is "official", it's useless

Just want to confirm this as an Irish person. The language is of symbolic / nationalist importance only. It's not used in everyday life except by hobbyists or residents of a few tiny 'gaeltacht' areas.

In other words, English is in practice the first language of virtually every Irish person, the vast majority of media, and all business in the country.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#438

Post by silon42 » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

romanoderoma wrote: post #426

rgblambda wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>the English language can become the lingua franca with less resistance as it is no ones language(Well, there are the Irish but it's a small country). Malta also has English as an official language, though again, it's an even smaller country. On the other hand, in neither Ireland or Malta is English the "first" official language.

English isn't an official EU language anymore, the only country that chose it was UK. https://www.politico.eu/article/english-will-not-be-an-offic...

Should use US/EU English instead.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#439

Post by floatboth » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

jeanjogr wrote: post #391

wott wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but each of the numerous political announcements (on the French level as well as on the EU level) of "we're going to build a giant of [this industry], this time for real" which were made since the 90s have always ended up in something ranging between complete vaporwave and utter failure. Basically all French industrial successes were recorded between the end of WW2 and the end of the 70s/ beginning of the 80s, f…

> That was not helped by the motto of the 90s, when the 'glory' was to become "a company without factory"... Was that so silly? AMD seems to be doing alright.

Yeah.. Until 2008, AMD was into the opposite thing, and the weight of their fabs was quite damaging to them

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#440

Post by cromka » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 7:42 PM UTC

herodoturtle wrote: post #352

analog31 wrote: post #342

In kind of a similar vein, many years ago Germany decided to become kind of the silicon valley of optics and photonics (e.g., lasers and their ilk). While I don't think they are the dominant player today, they are certainly a force to be reckoned with, and they seem to have a developed a decent pipeline of ideas and people from university and government labs to a private sector that is probably subsidized. Granted, i…

> it suggests to me that a national program to strengthen an industry isn't guaranteed to be a failure "Isn't guaranteed to be a failure". Sorry, I struggle to interpret sentences like this. English isn't my first language. Please clarify? Are you saying that "it is not definitely a failure"? I can't figure out if it's the above, or if it is this: "won't necessary fail" More specifically, I'm not sure if the implicat…

"Just because it is sponsored and coordinated by the governments, doesn't mean it must fail."

The implied notion is that the governments and their agencies are usually too incompetent and anything but innovative, so programs like this are oftentimes just a way to extort the money for some and a chance to pose in front of the cameras for the politicians.