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Expanding Fuchsia's open source model

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Re: Expanding Fuchsia's open source model

#301

Post by zepto »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #300
zepto wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already does? “The OpenPush project aims to create ... Development is still ongoing.” Doesn’t sound like it from the website.

It is already usable. Nobody would claim that a Linux distro isn't open just because it doesn't have a built-in push API. You can build one on top for other apps to use, and you can do the same on Android. This is notably different from iOS.

Is it already usable?

The repo says it is unfinished, and commits seem to have stopped a year ago. It looks like it has been abandoned.

Has it been used in production somewhere?

Re: Expanding Fuchsia's open source model

#302

Post by ac29 »

fnord123 wrote: post #281
sanxiyn wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think unpaid internship is unquestionably a good thing. It's consensual, and unpaid interns are usually happy to do unpaid internship. It makes sense you are not happy to do unpaid internship, but the only thing it shows is that you are not the target audience.

>I think unpaid internship is unquestionably a good thing. Unpaid internships are definitely questioned. You're very much incorrect here.

For one,they provide a major advantage to people who have enough money to be able to afford to go unpaid. And really, if a company can't or won't pay you even minimum wage (something like $500/week on the high end in the US), that should be a huge red flag.

Re: Expanding Fuchsia's open source model

#303

Post by zepto »

zepto wrote: post #130
actuator wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be definitely nice to have but why does core Android itself need to have support for every feature? We can have open source OSs on top of Android that build with a specific service set. Sort of how Ubuntu builds over Debian.

It doesn’t have to do anything, but if it doesn’t support what are considered standard features of a phone today in an open manner, it’s hard to take AOSP seriously as an open platform. Also worth noting that when someone does build on top of AOSP, they are at the mercy of Google’s roadmap for the closed versions of Android.

To clarify - I should have said: “it’s hard to take AOSP seriously as an open phone platform”

Re: Expanding Fuchsia's open source model

#304

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

lalaithion wrote: post #221
taneq wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there were some way to let the phone's owner decide what apps were allowed to run in the background, we could all be happy.

It takes about 15 seconds of googling to find out that yes, the user can decide what apps are allowed to run in the background. It's just that now, it's not "every app by default" and instead "what apps a user selects".

If instead of googling for 15 seconds you had any real experience about developing apps that need to run in the background (like I do), you would know that this 'background running' is a joke.

The only way to run an app non-stop is to have a persistent notification. And even then, apps are killed off left and right by the likes of Samsung. See https://dontkillmyapp.com for more details

Re: Expanding Fuchsia's open source model

#305

Post by lern_too_spel »

zepto wrote: post #301
lern_too_spel wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is already usable. Nobody would claim that a Linux distro isn't open just because it doesn't have a built-in push API. You can build one on top for other apps to use, and you can do the same on Android. This is notably different from iOS.

Is it already usable? The repo says it is unfinished, and commits seem to have stopped a year ago. It looks like it has been abandoned. Has it been used in production somewhere?

Here's yet another option that does essentially the same thing but doesn't provide a reference implementation for self-hosted push server. https://github.com/onepf/OPFPush/tree/master/samples/pushcha...

I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon has their own internal implementation of the same thing to use in their Android apps.

Re: Expanding Fuchsia's open source model

#306

Post by zepto »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #305
zepto wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it already usable? The repo says it is unfinished, and commits seem to have stopped a year ago. It looks like it has been abandoned. Has it been used in production somewhere?

Here's yet another option that does essentially the same thing but doesn't provide a reference implementation for self-hosted push server. https://github.com/onepf/OPFPush/tree/master/samples/pushcha... I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon has their own internal implementation of the same thing to use in their Android apps.

So, no. It’s not already usable and there are no complete alternatives you can point to.

You speculate that Amazon may have an internal framework for this, but so what? Even if your guess was correct, that’s not AOSP, and it’s not open.

Your statement that AOSP ‘already does’ this simply isn’t true.

It seems like you don’t distinguish between things that are possible in principle, and things that are actually true.

Re: Expanding Fuchsia's open source model

#307

Post by Inhibit »

phh wrote: post #229
Inhibit wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, then nothing's changed (re the messiness) since Android 2/4/5. Sounds like they're still moving toward locking down everyone's hardware to ensure their ad platform revenue. The couple of devices I've broken down a release for and rebuilt just to clean out Trojans included in the firmware were devilishly difficult. And does it ever piss me off that there's nothing generic and updated to run on them.

As a hacker, Android feel much more free than before. Because I can flash whichever ROM on pretty much whichever device I want. (assuming OEM didn't lock down bootloader unlock, which is pretty rare those days) I have my own ROM on small device (kTouch i9), long device (Qin 2 Pro), keyboard device (Unihertz Titan), device with a FLIR and endoscope (Ulefone Armor 9), assistant/speaker (Archos Hello 7), comfortable in…

Jeez. Remind me not to express an opinion on here.

Thank you for the clarification! I haven't had the extra time to tinker with the latest devices since it's a bit outside my day to day. That's a bit more nuanced and it's good to hear from someone who develops on the platform regularly.

Re: Expanding Fuchsia's open source model

#308

Post by lern_too_spel »

zepto wrote: post #306
lern_too_spel wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's yet another option that does essentially the same thing but doesn't provide a reference implementation for self-hosted push server. https://github.com/onepf/OPFPush/tree/master/samples/pushcha... I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon has their own internal implementation of the same thing to use in their Android apps.

So, no. It’s not already usable and there are no complete alternatives you can point to. You speculate that Amazon may have an internal framework for this, but so what? Even if your guess was correct, that’s not AOSP, and it’s not open. Your statement that AOSP ‘already does’ this simply isn’t true. It seems like you don’t distinguish between things that are possible in principle, and things that are actually true.

You're essentially suggesting that Android should have Tor built in. The point is that it's possible to use other push services on Android and has been done, just like it is possible to use Tor on Android. There is no reason that AOSP itself needs to implement Tor any more than Windows or AOSP needs to provide a push API. Both are possible to implement on top of the platform and have been implemented on top of the platform.

This is unlike iOS, which is the real broken platform.

Re: Expanding Fuchsia's open source model

#309

Post by zepto »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #308
zepto wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, no. It’s not already usable and there are no complete alternatives you can point to. You speculate that Amazon may have an internal framework for this, but so what? Even if your guess was correct, that’s not AOSP, and it’s not open. Your statement that AOSP ‘already does’ this simply isn’t true. It seems like you don’t distinguish between things that are possible in principle, and things that are actually true.

You're essentially suggesting that Android should have Tor built in. The point is that it's possible to use other push services on Android and has been done, just like it is possible to use Tor on Android. There is no reason that AOSP itself needs to implement Tor any more than Windows or AOSP needs to provide a push API. Both are possible to implement on top of the platform and have been implemented on top of the pl…

Why are you talking about iOS?

Also who said anything about Tor? What relevance does it have?

Of course any open source project can have features added in private. Those are not part of the platform.

It’s certainly not true to say those features already exist in the platform, as you falsely tried to claim upthread.

It also doesn’t mean you can add them to the platform if the maintainers don’t accept them.

As I say, you are confusing what is possible in some other reality with what is actually true.

Re: Expanding Fuchsia's open source model

#310

Post by com2kid »

anp wrote: post #233
gman83 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's fair to call Windows on ARM an "engineer retention project". They actually released Windows RT and tried very hard to make it work. They still have it going with the Surface Pro X, and they just announced an emulation layer to get x64 applications working on ARM, which if it works well would solve RT's biggest problem, a lack of legacy applications: https://www.neowin.net/news/it039s-official-x64-e…

My possibly incorrect read of GP is that it started as effectively a retention project until someone realized they really wanted it.

That is correct. It was a one man show for a long time (I don't think it was his only job, just a side project), then when tablets happened a full team was ramped up behind it.
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