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EU countries team up for semiconductor push

reuters.com

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Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#411

Post by bilbo0s »

brnt wrote: post #286
selectodude wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ASML doesn't make semiconductors :)

Without ASML, nobody will :)

Without ASML, everyone would make their own ASML.

Without TSMC, everyone would make their own TSMC.

This is what we see happening in the world right now. Previously the only consideration was, "Is it cost effective." Now there are a myriad number of other considerations up to and including geopolitical considerations. The US, for instance, has always been able to manufacture lith machines. Economic considerations obliged them to innovate elsewhere. Yet it's obvious that were the EU to threaten US access to lith machines, the US would start manufacturing those machines on their own.

Lith is not even the hard part. TSMC and Intel have the same lith machines. Why is Intel having so much trouble? Because there is so much more to this entire enterprise than doing the lithography.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#412

Post by ClumsyPilot »

WanderPanda wrote: post #321
Normille wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and risk-adverse VCs. I think this is the big one. I don't know exactly how realistic this is. But from this side of the pond [Europe], it seems like, in the US there are VCs willing to throw millions [billions sometimes] at companies which are little more than a couple of guys with a silly idea, which would get you laughed out of your bank manager's office over here, if you went in asking to borrow a few hundred eu…

I don‘t subscribe to this at all. If there was such a huge opportunity in investing in European startups VCs would take it. Its not like they are nationalistic, they would equalise the arbitrage opportunities in no time

That not how VC's work, they invest in places where they know the laws, customs and markets. It is more common for teams to nove to place where there are VC's, thanthe other way round.c

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#413

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

ur-whale wrote: post #403
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- labor laws (very hard to fire people in many European countries) That's just not true now and hasn't been the case anymore since like the 2009 financial crisis. In most of Europe it's trivial to fire an underperforming non-unionized employee as the countries have adapted more business friendly laws to remain competitive after the financial crisis. Sure, there may still be some grey beards somewhere with old bullet…

That's just Austria which is a comparatively small country. In the larger ones (DE, FR) labor laws are a nightmare.

Labour laws are a nightmare in every country due to bureaucracy but that doesn't mean it's always difficult to fire people. Most companies be it in FR, DE, wherever, have good lawyers on the payroll to advise them o the easiest legal path possible to get rid of undesirable employees. If a company really wants you gone, they'll make it happen one way or another.

France was famous for their approach of making an employees' life miserable in order to make them leave as they couldn't fire them easily. Honestly, I'd rather just be fired and get on unemployment than be subjected to psychological torture every day in a poisonous work environment.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#414

Post by mrtksn »

rorykoehler wrote: post #404
rgblambda wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>the English language can become the lingua franca with less resistance as it is no ones language(Well, there are the Irish but it's a small country). Malta also has English as an official language, though again, it's an even smaller country. On the other hand, in neither Ireland or Malta is English the "first" official language.

Every country should make English their second official language like Ireland and Malta.

That would be fantastic, like choosing English from the menu when your native language is not supported in the app.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#416

Post by AsyncAwait »

guai888 wrote: post #358
birdsbirdsbirds wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How near is your near future? Isn't China planning to achieve major progress until 2025? They aren't bound by patents in the same way as western companies. Why should they not be able to reproduce the knowledge? For nuclear energy, solar cells, moon rockets and high speed trains, they have already been successful.

China is weak in semiconductor industry and they simply do not have the capability to overcome the obstacle in 5 to 10 years or maybe never. Let me give two examples of obstacle. US has monopoly in the software tools that engineer use to design IC. Japan has the chemical that semiconductor fab foundry need to make IC. US now has slapped sanction on China's top fab foundry SMIC with intention to kill China's semicondu…

It's worth noting that the Chinese state is able to pool resources and direct a national effort in a way countries like Japan and the U.S. are not. It may take longer than 10 years but they'll get there.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#417

Post by AsyncAwait »

ur-whale wrote: post #401

European governments getting involved in trying to get tech. to move forward, film at 11. We've all seen it and already know the end of the movie. Good luck to them, but I wouldn't build any kind of business plan based on the predicted outcome.

Actually, there are some rather successful EU wide projects, CERN, ESA, Galileo etc. so I wouldn't make plans per se but not doom it from the start either.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#418

Post by chrisseaton »

ginko wrote: post #18
Zdup wrote: post #12

How will they be keeping talent? I heard workers in IT are paid low compared to other jobs and especially compared to similar jobs in North America, what stops them. from just going to US/Canada?

>what stops them. from just going to US/Canada? As an European working in a sector very close to the semiconductor industry my main reason is that I don't want to live in the US/Canada.

I think they mean 'going to' as in working for them. You can work for a US or Canadian company remotely. I've done it my whole career. I've never seen anything even remotely approaching a competitive offer from a European company. They can't compete. What incentive is there to work for a European company?

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#419

Post by yeahforsureman »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #347
mrtksn wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has some successful international projects like CERN or Airbus. Besides, what are the other options? Europe is in this strange place where collectively account for enormous wealth and power but individually no country is a match to the big boys like USA/China when simultaneously are super unoptimised due to cultural/lingual differences. The younger Europeans I met were all very eager to learn English, so who k…

> Europe has some successful international projects like CERN or Airbus. Besides, what are the other options? If we have to go back to mentioning Airbus (1970) and CERN (1954) to find successful European projects, I think this show how big of a serious problem there is in Europe no!? P.S: a lot of the young in Europe are learning english because they want to get the f--- out the EU as soon as they can. I'm european a…

Not my experience. Away from some parts of Eastern and Southern Europe for lack of opportunities, but generally out of EU, no.

And anyway, if your kid goes to college, he or she is very likely to be of legal age and have, like, opinions of their own. Yet you make it sound like you're raising cattle for yourself or something.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#420

Post by AsyncAwait »

joelbluminator wrote: post #273
deltron3030 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What semiconductors companies did Germany , France and Spain built so far? German companies like Zeiss build parts for e.g. ASML.

Probably true, but that would make Tesla and Apple Chinese then...

Except they also design them, so that would be like if the iPhone was also designed in China.
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