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Elon Musk moves to Texas

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Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#291
I wonder if the wealthy leaving California to avoid state income taxes now that the federal government penalizes states collecting it will finally be the impetus it needs to reform it's terrible property tax system.

And make make no mistake, if there's a large outflow of the moderately well off and up out of Califonia in recent years, it's probably because our last Congress capped the state tax deductions they could take.[1] Effectively making Bluer states pay for the most recent nationwide tax break.

Kind of a moonshot, but it's nice to imagine states leaving income taxes to the federal government because of this and just switching to land value taxes.

Some kind of fairer sales tax like a VATS are another alternative, but I hear too much about the trouble people have with them (added bureaucracy, carousel fraud) to actually like the idea.

[1] https://taxfoundation.org/tax-basics/salt-deduction/

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one thing, Texas has no personal income tax.

Does it have visible inequality? I've never been there.

Texas is huge. It’s hard to make any sort of generalization. But there are homeless camps in particular places in cities if you go looking; with the weather, it’d be surprising if there weren’t. But from what I understand it’s still not as bad as some places in SF/LA.

All I come in contact with, living in middle income suburbs, is panhandlers at intersections.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#293
post #74
post #6

California is actively looking for ways to extract more money from Elon. It likely posed an appreciable risk to his business ventures that CA at some point will try to tax unrecognized capital gains, which would require him to liquidate shares to pay the tax. Basically akin to a hostile government takeover. If CA were to aggressively pursue such a policy, they would likely go after anyone they perceived as fleeing ju…

>Basically akin to a hostile government takeover. Or, you know, taxes to pay for the government subsidies that have funded all of Musk's current business operations.

Doesn't seem like it is Elon's problem if California decided to give its taxpayer money away.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#295
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long have you been out of Texas? I think we know people aren't coming to Texas to live in Tyler; They are moving to the cities, Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio, which are all diverse, and have large gay communities. Even Tyler has changed. (old article, but still) https://www.advocate.com/society/activism/2009/09/29/gays-ta...

That article is horrifying. If you meant to show that ass "texas getting better" then I hate to see how bad it was before this.

While that strikes me as an odd article to have shared, for some perspective, it was published in 2009--less than a year after Californians voted "yes" on proposition 8 to ban same-sex marriage.

It's not as though California was always unicorns and rainbows, either.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#296
People love San Francisco - the culture, the energy, the people, the beauty, the opportunity, the freedom, the openness - that's why the cost of living is so high there. The more who leave, the more affordable it is for entrepreneurs and other dreamers who want to do something wonderful. I want to live someplace filled with those people; I want to meet them at the cafe and in my workplace.

Cities have been the great engines of modern culture and economies for awhile now. Nothing has changed. Coronavirus is a brief interruption. Remove work doesn't change it - Covid didn't teach SV about remote work (many SV companies tried large-scale remote work several years ago, then brought many back to the office). There's a reason businesses try to create great office environments - dynamic, exciting, fun, social - it's highly creative and productive. Now you think people will be just as creative and productive sitting by themselves at their desk at home?

Taxes are a major part of that - taxes are how we invest in our communities. To treat them only as an expense is ignorant, sometimes willfully so. California and the Bay Area have been taxing and investing for generations, and look what it turned out. The infrastructure of the Bay Area, U CA Berkley, and Stanford (which at least receives research money and massive tax benefits in tax breaks, I assume) are just three examples. The Golden Gate Bridge is another. Next time you are in a city, look around at all the things that the people got together, democratically, and built, funded, and operate. I believe in democracy, a fundamentally American belief.

In the end, it's a reactionary political statement. The reactionaries have been targeting cities for many years because they are powerbases for Democrats, progressives, are populated by many non-white people, and they are cultural threats (merely by the fact of their existence and success: their diversity and integration, their cultural leadership, and in business and economics: what great, innovative industry comes from reactionary parts of the country?). You'll note who made the big statements about leaving - Thiel and Musk, possibly the leading reactionaries in SV.

Reactionary politics is fundamentally corrupt - a lie about the world, in every aspect, to protect and accumulate their own power and assets. They're right - they don't fit well in SV. Reactionary is anti-progress, anti-optimism, it's anti-. SV is doing well if the reactionaries don't stay and stagnate, but leave and create more space and opportunity for the newcomers, the next generation. I believe in those newcomers much more than in Thiel and Musk.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#297
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the thing though - it's not just a "few extra points". By my calculation its 13.3% more living in California in state income tax savings alone. That is a huge amount of money for Elon, but is also a huge amount of money for people working on a SV salary. It could be more than a mortgage payment. There are probably additional savings with less regulation etc California is not a state anyone should want to do b…

> for people working on a SV salary Most Californians don't get to keep their SV salary when they move to Texas.

What data are you basing that on - Austin is not cheap, and it's probably getting a lot more expensive now that everyone is moving there.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#298
post #195
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At last count I've had 14 friends move out of California in the last 3 years. All of them middle class. The biggest reasons given are cost of living and quality of life and education for their kids.

We will be moving out of CA in the coming months. We are lifelong residents. We are leaving due to cost of living and especially quality of life for our children.

Yes, you and poster you're replying to mention "quality of life". What does that mean?

A cynic would see this as a dog-whistle for "too many Asians/Hispanics/foreigners". (And I have actually heard a white person here in California say that about the schools.)

I suspect though you mean something else.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#299
post #2

Historical tweet from a CA Assembly Member from Southern California: https://twitter.com/LorenaSGonzalez/status/12592878791775313...

> And, the deaths from Covid-19 in California are disproportionately Latino. Our communities have been the hardest hit. By far. Maybe that’s why we take the public health officials’ warning and directions so seriously. Does that follow? Wouldn't it seem more likely that California latinos statistically disregard health officials advice if they're being most impacted by a disease which doesn't care about ethnicity?

Yes it follows. \

"Wouldn't it seem more likely that California latinos statistically disregard health officials advice" - No. For example: a lot of communities have intergenerational families living in close proximity due to lack of affordable housing, jobs, redlining, etc. Having many people living closer together explains being "most impacted" as well as (obviously better than but hey I'm being magnanimous) your thesis that people are choosing to "disregard advice". Just... no.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#300
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about this, but California law makers were discussing an asset tax at one point. The discussed law would have worked across state lines for up to 10 years to catch rich people who leave state lines. Just the discussion of such a law probably spooked the ultra rich. More details: https://weaver.com/blog/california-proposed-wealth-tax-impac...

It's questionable whether such a law is actually enforceable, and I'd hope it wouldn't hold up in court. That said, I can't blame Musk et al. for being worried by it.

Being unenforceable doesn't stop a state from passing it (see AB5 recently with most industries getting exceptions). And once it passes, it posses serious business risk to operate in that state.
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