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EU countries team up for semiconductor push

reuters.com

351–360 of 665 posts

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you just answered the question why people wouldn't want to move to such a country. From the outside, America does not portray itself to be a particularly stable or desirable place to live.

I'm sure it does if you read Russia Today and Xinhua.

Even if you read only American news it does not seem like a good place to live in. This is coming from an immigrant who chose the EU over the US by the way.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#352

In kind of a similar vein, many years ago Germany decided to become kind of the silicon valley of optics and photonics (e.g., lasers and their ilk). While I don't think they are the dominant player today, they are certainly a force to be reckoned with, and they seem to have a developed a decent pipeline of ideas and people from university and government labs to a private sector that is probably subsidized. Granted, i…

> it suggests to me that a national program to strengthen an industry isn't guaranteed to be a failure

"Isn't guaranteed to be a failure".

Sorry, I struggle to interpret sentences like this. English isn't my first language.

Please clarify?

Are you saying that "it is not definitely a failure"?

I can't figure out if it's the above, or if it is this:

"won't necessary fail"

More specifically, I'm not sure if the implication is optimistic or pessimistic.

I hope that makes sense - the nuances of English are a delightful journey of exceptions; something my programming brain struggles with at times.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#353

In kind of a similar vein, many years ago Germany decided to become kind of the silicon valley of optics and photonics (e.g., lasers and their ilk). While I don't think they are the dominant player today, they are certainly a force to be reckoned with, and they seem to have a developed a decent pipeline of ideas and people from university and government labs to a private sector that is probably subsidized. Granted, i…

The EUV source inside ASML's lithography machines is from the German optics company Zeiss, and the lasers used in that system which generates EUV wavelength light by bombarding tin droplets is also from another German company, Trumpf.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#354
post #335

Genuine question - Has any major tech innovation/ product come out European industry (mainland EU) over the last couple of decades ? (not Academia) Their biggest tech companies are Spotify and Skype. That's pretty underwhelming given that Spotify's biggest innovations are in product development and Skype became a subsidiary of an American company within 2 years of its existence. Additionally, the 2 companies that see…

ASML comes to mind. Dutch company building large lithography machines being used to create semi conductors.

The tech scene in mainland Europe operates completely differently from what you might be used to from Silicon Valley, but there is lots of stuff going on. If you only look at the European car manufactures and the endless amount of small-to-medium sized businesses involved in the supply chain. Lots of stuff going on.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will end up in the pockets of friends and families of politicians that will be in "the management". 100% agree. Considering the incredible education system and engineers we have, the 2 only things restraining Europe from reaching Silicon Valley level are corrupt politicians and risk-adverse VCs.

>Considering the incredible education system and engineers we have, the 2 only things restraining Europe from reaching Silicon Valley level are corrupt politicians and risk-adverse VCs. I find it telling that it's mostly europeans who make these types of comments. The EU has tremendous barriers to labour mobility that most europeans don't even realise - differing bureaucracy and language being two of the most signifi…

Historically, Silicon Valley was created from government contracts and subsidies, then the VCs joined the party.

It's a chicken-egg problem, and Europe has no chicken nor eggs at the moment. But lots of grain and hay.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#356

So, as someone who used to be an engineer in semiconductor manufacturing facilities, this reminds me a lot of Sematech. That was a joint venture between American companies in the 90's, when there was a concern that we were falling behind Japan. I'm sure there will be people who try to claim otherwise, but my view from inside AMD (at that time still doing its own manufacturing) was that nothing much ever came out of S…

Lets not forget that some of the core tech that sits at the heart of semiconductor manufacturing (asml) is already European. It will be daunting, but something just might come out of it.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the consensus seems to be that Intel tried to pile up too many new improvements, which backfired. TSMC took a more incremental and safe approach Can you point to some industry literature that explains this? If this is true, it is a lot more surprising that Intel is talking about going fabless. You build a lot of expertise by rolling the dice on new techniques that don't pan out on the first iteration. People wouldn…

The consensus on HN (search for Intel 7nm, cobalt, ...). It's all speculation at this point. I doubt that Intel would publish details on their processes and its defects so soon. Intel buying some TSMC capacity does not mean it is going fabless. Nor does it mean Intel is abandoning being vertically integrated. I like your Boeing remark. It's better to fail at doing something aggressive than to fail to innovate.

> It's better to fail at doing something aggressive than to fail to innovate.

I don't think that's a particularly useful way to divide up failures. I think it's better to fail in a way that doesn't kill people than a way that does. Whether you kill people by being too conservative or too aggressive with your design is pretty irrelevant compared to that.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the success of Apple M1, TSMC and Samsung will grow faster than Intel. Taiwan,Korea,Japan and US will control the semiconductor industry in the near future unless a game changing technology is introduced. Taiwan semiconductor companies's stocks are going banana after US slap sanction on SMIC. UMC stock has not changed much in years jumped 250% in last few weeks. (UMC invented foundry as service, then TSMC copy t…

How near is your near future? Isn't China planning to achieve major progress until 2025? They aren't bound by patents in the same way as western companies. Why should they not be able to reproduce the knowledge? For nuclear energy, solar cells, moon rockets and high speed trains, they have already been successful.

China is weak in semiconductor industry and they simply do not have the capability to overcome the obstacle in 5 to 10 years or maybe never. Let me give two examples of obstacle. US has monopoly in the software tools that engineer use to design IC. Japan has the chemical that semiconductor fab foundry need to make IC. US now has slapped sanction on China's top fab foundry SMIC with intention to kill China's semiconductor industry. China's semiconductor companies's stocks are dropping stone while Taiwan semiconductor companies's stock are rising like crazy so a lot people are pessimistic about semiconductor companies in China. Semiconductor is a very expensive game to play. China has big domestic market but it is not large enough to sustain a semiconductor business. This is very different from other industries.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#359
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has some successful international projects like CERN or Airbus. Besides, what are the other options? Europe is in this strange place where collectively account for enormous wealth and power but individually no country is a match to the big boys like USA/China when simultaneously are super unoptimised due to cultural/lingual differences. The younger Europeans I met were all very eager to learn English, so who k…

> Europe has some successful international projects like CERN or Airbus. Besides, what are the other options? If we have to go back to mentioning Airbus (1970) and CERN (1954) to find successful European projects, I think this show how big of a serious problem there is in Europe no!? P.S: a lot of the young in Europe are learning english because they want to get the f--- out the EU as soon as they can. I'm european a…

Europe's done big multinational technical-political things many times to varying levels of success. Don't forget Gaileo, Arianespace, Airbus's parent EADS, the ESA, etc. They tend to not be super capital efficient, but the sheer amount of wealth and resources tend to make things that are priorities not completely fail.

> P.S: a lot of the young in Europe are learning english because they want to get the f--- out the EU as soon as they can. I'm european and I'm raising my kid in a british college since years for that very reason.

What factors make you want to get out? As an American who's spent a lot of time in both the US and Continental Europe (and elsewhere) I don't see any terrific suck.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the success of Apple M1, TSMC and Samsung will grow faster than Intel. Taiwan,Korea,Japan and US will control the semiconductor industry in the near future unless a game changing technology is introduced. Taiwan semiconductor companies's stocks are going banana after US slap sanction on SMIC. UMC stock has not changed much in years jumped 250% in last few weeks. (UMC invented foundry as service, then TSMC copy t…

I'm only half kidding when I say Apple doesn't consider themselves a US company. They consider them Apple. It's not like they are cooperative like US automakers, and they have done China's will.

China CCP is a snake. Get in bed with them and they will bite you one day. It is just their nature. Apple will learn one day.
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