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Games people play with cash flow

commoncog.com

41–50 of 150 posts

Re: Games people play with cash flow

#41
echoing the common opinion, this is a great article at both practical and theoretical levels. The discussion on cash flow is insightful but the summary about the flaws of first principle thinking is what makes it complete.

Re: Games people play with cash flow

#42
post #10
post #2

This is a pretty good article but missed an opportunity to comment in more detail on the 2020 startup/unicorn ecosystem. "Malone’s entire strategy was built around a single fact: that you have to pay up front for cable systems, but then earn back your money via a stable stream of cash for years and years afterwards. Notice how this extreme demand for capital drove Malone to embrace debt, over other sources of capital…

This is an important point. For this to work, step 0 is: have a functioning business. That’s what gives you the opportunity to then change the curve on your cash flow. Another factor is your vendors. The cable business expanded (and expanded into) an existing ecosystem: tv mfrs, film studios etc. The restaurant already had vendors it could afford to lend 300K up front knowing that they would deliver reliably over the…

Yea, the functioning/viable business piece has a place in this discussion. I can understand why the author wouldn't include it but it serves us here. To take on debt like mentioned, you have to have some confidence in the business model and not be searching for product/market fit like many early-stage companies. If you already have cash flow then you can leverage it.

Re: Games people play with cash flow

#43

Most useful article I've read probably this year. After selling our last company I was surprised that the acquirer went on an even bigger spending spree just months after acquiring us. As a bootstrapper this blew my mind. This article helps shine a light on how they pulled it off. They acquired us for the free cashflow the company threw off (uncommon in our industry) and the leveraged that to further their expansion.…

If you liked this article, you might like the book The Goal or its application to the “project context” that software companies find themselves in, Critical Chain. They define a lot of business thinking as being focused on controlling costs, when in fact you want to first maximize revenues, and the kind of funky idea of measuring “dollar days” that one eventually gets to is an attempt (which I actually don't think is successful, but maybe it is approximately okay) to start to bring cash flow ideas to consciousness.

I believe The Goal is where I first read about this idea about cash flow being more important than revenue, in a way that can be easily explained to anybody: you have bills, you have a certain amount in the bank, and then you have in accounting a set of invoices that you have sent out to customers but they have not yet been paid. So that money is “as good as earned” on paper but it’s not yet in the bank. And the problem is not revenue, the problem is cash flow. If you don’t have enough in that bank account, then after paying for your materials and rent for your building and whatever else, you suddenly come up short on payroll. “Please forgive me,” you tell your employees, “we have the money and your paychecks will just be a week late, we are so sorry, this never happens normally.” Good way to lose a lot of your best minds that really make your money—your best salespeople, your best engineers, your hardest workers. They got rent to pay. In The Goal I believe the book points out that most companies that go under don’t have a revenue problem but a cash flow problem, the money isn’t coming in fast enough to pay to keep the company running even though it is coming in eventually.

there are a couple of other ways to look at it that may be helpful to the broader community, one of them is that your interest rate on debt actually sets a time scale for your “indefinite future.” If you have credit card debt at 36%/year compounded monthly that’s 3%/month, flip that to (1 month)/(.03) = 33 months. Now if I ask you “hey, how much is that $20 per month subscription worth to you in terms of present value?” you can answer: that subscription runs out into the indefinite future so it gets multiplied by this time scale and it is worth $660 to me right now. Which is another way to say equivalently that if I bought something right now for $660 I would pay $20/month for the indefinite future. Lots of people don’t realize how much present value they can unlock by just canceling out old subscriptions like that, because the cash flow is not there immediately, but it’s true.

Similarly, I ran into cash flow issues at the beginning of this year in my personal finances. With COVID-19 hitting at around the same time my auto loan asked me if I wanted several months deferral. Are you shitting me right now? Yes, the added productivity and lack of stress from having a floating several hundred dollars in the bank and therefore being able to set up auto-pay (and not incurring late fees on all my accounts) pays for itself and then some. Thank you so much! (Of course the bank is a bank, this is cold hard calculus to them, so I don't feel too bad. Imagine that, too, though! Imagine that if you are in a good cash flow position, as the bank is as covid starts, your reaction might actually be to turn away cash flow: you are a sort of landlord collecting rents and you need to mitigate the risk that all your tenants go broke, they need to be able to keep their jobs for your wellbeing. And then you think of the actual landlords and you realize that the system must have left them relatively strapped for cash if they’re not similarly absorbing some of the shock. And that launches into interesting questions about feedback mechanisms in complex systems and their modes of resilience.)

Re: Games people play with cash flow

#44
post #24

Great Article. A lot of people don't understand how important cash flow is. Even Elon pointed out that having factories close to customer is very important for a fast growing company like TSLA because if you grow too fast you'll be putting so many cars on boats before they are paid for that you will have no cash. I disagree with the framing of both articles somewhat. The question should be "What is limiting your grow…

Musk definitely understands the importance of (incoming) cash flows. Being paid upfront for functionality that may or may not be ever available is genius. Edit: /s

Is it really genius? Especially when you put it quite so bluntly? I've been wondering if a class action lawsuit around this could end up being a significant risk to Tesla.

edit: woosh

Re: Games people play with cash flow

#45

I am unconvinced that "first-principles thinking" is the problem here. Surely one can refute the original argument without having to debunk axiomatic logic itself. For example, one could argue something like this: Even though increased access to other people's money can cause founders to make irresponsible decisions, raising money has other advantages that tend to offset this.

I think this is the difference between a valid argument and a sound argument. A valid argument means the conclusion follows from the premise, kinda like the quoted argument in the article which seems to be valid.

A sound argument is one whose premises are also true. This is where the quoted argument in the article fails. The premises either are false or don't apply to all startups. This is basically what the author means by a argument that is missing premises. It's not really that a premise is missing, but that without additional into it may seem like the argument is sound,but with additional into you realize it is not sound and therefore leads to a different conclusion instead.

Re: Games people play with cash flow

#46
This is a great post. Really, really fantastic.

The post it's based on is ok, but super abstract, and really just spends a lot of time dancing around the fact that reality really doesn't care about your big brain and how hard it thinks. You can go super elaborate on hypothesizing if you like, but the brunt force of reality is exactly the same regardless.

Re: Games people play with cash flow

#47
I think the argument he's knocking down is more flawed than he's letting on - specifically, just because the extra cash makes it easier to make bad decisions doesn't mean that those bad decisions will be made. The argument treats those as inexorable. If the argument had been passed through a truth checker and given a few more eyeballs, that flaw would have been obvious. That particular inner syllogism just doesn't inexorably flow from the truth of its lemmas.

More generally, the "flaw with first-principles analysis" is generally as you'd expect. Your premises might appear true when they're not, or your inner reasoning structure might appear valid (logical definition) when it's not, or you might be making assumptions (in the omission of other premises) that are false. It's just really hard. So that's where a slow painstaking process of repeated review will help you. And it's also not a panacea - first-principles analysis does not guarantee your solution, it's more a process that helps you surface your assumptions and learn your argument.

Re: Games people play with cash flow

#48

I am unconvinced that "first-principles thinking" is the problem here. Surely one can refute the original argument without having to debunk axiomatic logic itself. For example, one could argue something like this: Even though increased access to other people's money can cause founders to make irresponsible decisions, raising money has other advantages that tend to offset this.

I think the idea is, when you argue from first principles, you are implicitly assuming that you know all of the relevant first principles. Since you're human and imperfect, there is always a chance that you don't. How to know? Well, empirically, check whether the conclusions you get, seem to hold up to reality. The author's experience was that taking investment $$ was necessary (or at least often useful) in a startup…

Let me just add to this. Discovering new information (or new "axioms") will not change the truth of your previous conclusions if you did everything correctly, but you may find that the information you believed before was incorrect. In general, I believe it will be better to use a probabilistic model for most real-world cases since it is very difficult to find "axioms" for almost anything.

Re: Games people play with cash flow

#49
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you might prefer not to tax corporations at all, only distributions to shareholders. “Profits” or “cash flow” kept in the corporation is reinvested capital. It’s creating jobs and growing businesses, even if it’s kept in an interest bearing bank account.

So I've always been confused by this argument of just start taxing the money that goes to shareholders because the business will reinvest it and create jobs and what not. What keeps the company from reinvesting in the form of company luxury cars for the executives, a company home that they let the CEO live in, and executive compensation. Essentially redirecting the money that would've at least gone to index holders t…

Barring fraud, lavish expenditures that you describe would be counted as compensation not investment and thus the picture changes dramatically.

Re: Games people play with cash flow

#50

The bit about TCI (a cable company with a lot of debt in the 70s) is super interesting. I've read before about how companies don't always see debt as a bad thing, and how they can move money around, but it always seems like magic. From the article - "And indeed, Malone’s strategy required TCI to show a loss for pretty much forever; for the next 25 years, it was never in the black". As the article mentions, Amazon fol…

That's always been my conflict with the deficit the US government runs.

- I believe we are approaching unsustainable levels of public debt

- If a CEO were offered debt on the terms that the US Government gets, they would be fired for not taking it

- If a CEO allocated funds the way the US Government does they would probably also be fired.

- Using debt for growth capital is great

- Using debt to get better terms from suppliers can be good too; particularly when you have access to more favorable credit than your suppliers do.

If the US were investing in infrastructure, I would be much less worried about how much of it is debt financing. However (and this is partly a function of it being a democracy), there's not much rhyme or reason to how the capital is allocated with regards to plans for actually growing the tax base to a point where the US will be able to service the future debt.

The cynic in me wants to say that the government acting like this is merely democracy reflecting a public that finances their lifestyles with debt, without plans for increasing future income to service said debt.

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