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Elon Musk moves to Texas

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Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#131

Musk made it clear what he thought about worker’s rights when he forced the Tesla plant open during the pandemic: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52627744 The modern day robber barons will never care about the working class. It is up to us to look out for ourselves.

Covid is a classic trolly problem. Pull the lever and destroy the economy, put the government in debt, destroy businesses, send millions into poverty, hurt individuals futures, increase infant mortality, increase drug use/overdoses, hurt artists and destroy museums, increase suicides, and more. Don't pull the lever and kill a .01 percent of people above the age of 55 who won't stay quarantined. I think he thinks pull…

It's actually a trolley problem within a trolley problem!

The decision whether to ban or approve the vaccines as they were developed was another example. The status quo is to ban vaccines until they meet criteria.

Ban a vaccine for those over 65, avoid the possibility of a side effect 100x than ever experienced (there has never been a vaccine entering phase 1 trials with over 1 in 100,000 expected risk of death).

Allow high risk people to voluntarily take the vaccine, most will work (about 85% of vaccines tested for efficacy succeed).

Society chose to ban the vaccine, killing hundreds of thousands of lives that could have been prevented. This pandemic is effectively solely a problem caused by this decision.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#132
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I really do think people in the US are massively entitled. I've lived in 3rd world countries and the standard of living even for a minimum wage worker is so beyond that of a poor person in a third world country (like Tanzania or Kenya, for example). People in the US are lucky , and yet, all everyone does is complain and bitch all the time. I think most Americans lack perspective and are ungrateful for what they h…

Let me rephrase your comment. It says the exact same thing you do: >"You have it better than poor people in third world countries, stop complaining about worker abuses you below the poverty line minimum wage people, you should be grateful. Yes since 1970 you're wealth has stagnated or decreased and the top earners have massively increased their share of the pie, but you should be grateful.!!"

I don't think he's saying that they should stop complaining.

He's saying they don't realize what they have, they are not thankful for anything and they keep dramatizing over everything.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#133
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much in subsidies did he get from California?

Nothing in comparison to what states offered. Giving businesses subsidies to attract more employers isn't anything unique to California.

He got something like $180 million from California for the faked/minimal battery swap effort alone.

Basically $180 million to make this commercial and a couple scrapped demo stations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V0vL3nnHY

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no it isn't. There are a lot more than 2 options to choose from.

Oh I completely agree. But these two options seems to be the choices that are being discussed by the media and government. You're either pro Covid restrictions or you're a granny killer. I personally think we should quarantine the age 55+ crowd and let the people under 55 go about their business. The under age 55 group is like 80% of the population who have only 20,000 covid fatalities which is less than car accident…

How do you propose to isolate the > 55 age group when no one younger is isolating? Nurses, doctors, people they live with will be a vector and pass it to them. And the under 55 age group (at .11% IFR) is still not going to want out and blindly get infected as that is still hundreds of thousands of deaths - leading to them avoiding being out in sizable numbers and still causing economic problems.

[Source: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...]

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#135
post #95

It's unfortunate that Elon is leaving California given that the state has really lifted him to the pedestal he is on - through the talent network (highly talented employees, VCs), and the progressive policies that CA built for clean technology (Solar, EVs, Energy Storage). That was paid for on the backs of the people. Funny how short his memory is. Elon is a talented man - I absolutely respect what he's done. However…

I wouldn’t give California’s government any credit for Tesla’s success so far. If it was so good then Tesla wouldn’t be the only car company doing so well.

I know it's tough for free market people to understand this but it can't be understated. California SUPPORTS AND BUILDS the nascent market space from subsidizing Solar, Energy Storage and yes Electric Vehicles. I know it isn't cool to defend the government they are the ultimate boogeyman but like FFS they provide so many critical parts of our economy and, in progressive states like CA, help nascent industries get a footing. Without them, frankly, Tesla and SolarCity wouldn't be where they are. Prove me wrong with intelligible arguments.

""It’s hard to find a total dollar amount of California’s subsidies for Tesla, but the subsidies have been thick and fast. Until this year, the state government covered $7,500 of every Tesla bought in the state. The Tesla factory applied for and qualified for plenty of tax breaks.

Early on, it got $612 million in tax breaks from California, according to Green Car Reports.

The federal government also subsidized the factory in question. Musk was a major donor to and fundraiser for Barack Obama. Obama’s administration issued a $465 million loan to help Musk’s company, Tesla, build the Fremont factory that would build components for all-electric cars. (Tesla has since repaid the loan, according to the Energy Department.)"".

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#136
post #6

California is actively looking for ways to extract more money from Elon. It likely posed an appreciable risk to his business ventures that CA at some point will try to tax unrecognized capital gains, which would require him to liquidate shares to pay the tax. Basically akin to a hostile government takeover. If CA were to aggressively pursue such a policy, they would likely go after anyone they perceived as fleeing ju…

> CA at some point will try to tax unrecognized capital gains

Where is the evidence for this?

Effectively, Elon has avoided future California capital gains taxes by moving. Those are the facts of his move.

Personally, I would rather pay a few points extra on capital gains and income taxes to avoid Texas.

Just look at what the Texas AG is doing right now:

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2020/12/08/texas-ag...

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#137
post #95

It's unfortunate that Elon is leaving California given that the state has really lifted him to the pedestal he is on - through the talent network (highly talented employees, VCs), and the progressive policies that CA built for clean technology (Solar, EVs, Energy Storage). That was paid for on the backs of the people. Funny how short his memory is. Elon is a talented man - I absolutely respect what he's done. However…

Things are very different in Silicon Valley and in California now from the 90's when Musk was on the team that started Paypal. I think he might not want to be in the NEW California and Silicon Valley. I could spend a lot of time doing research and trying to figure out why... but things have changed somehow. I think the mass exodus of people from California kind of supports his decision. I think California has a negat…

Isn't Musk in LA?

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#138
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing in comparison to what states offered. Giving businesses subsidies to attract more employers isn't anything unique to California.

He got something like $180 million from California for the faked/minimal battery swap effort alone. Basically $180 million to make this commercial and a couple scrapped demo stations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V0vL3nnHY

HN is not immune to political biases especially when it comes to taxes.

Nobody likes taxes and if you can either avoid them or recoup them through subsidies it makes you "smart."

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#139

Not the first time he’s moved to find more permissive labor laws. He left South Africa after his family’s emerald mine became less profitable when apartheid ended.

That story is disputed. Musk himself denies it, and it seems to come from his father, Errol, with whom he has a strained relationship. AFAIK no-one has properly established it it's true or false.

https://moguldom.com/278102/fact-check-did-elon-musk-inherit...

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#140

Musk made it clear what he thought about worker’s rights when he forced the Tesla plant open during the pandemic: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52627744 The modern day robber barons will never care about the working class. It is up to us to look out for ourselves.

I'll never understand why people look up to him. I have friends that are totally extreme communists, who hate everything capitalist and they idolize him. He's still a billionaire and a shitty person, just because he has interests in helping the planet (with his great business ventures) doesn't make him a swell fellow. He's still trash, like most billionaires.

I'll never understand why people embrace crab mentality.

He's playing a positive sum game - his ventures are growing the pie and moving us toward a better future (e.g., sustainable energy).

Focus on the rent seekers, not the pie growers.

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