Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Elon Musk moves to Texas

ktvu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 1001 posts

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#121

Post by icedistilled »

smabie wrote: post #83
tw04 wrote: post #39

Shocking to see someone anti-union trying to flee a state that actually protects workers rights: https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/9/30/20891314/elon-musk-... While I admire Elon's vision, I'm not a huge fan of how he's going about it. Kind of seems like he views other human beings as tools to be used and discarded when they've outlived their usefulness. You can see it when he makes comments about things like the U…

No, I really do think people in the US are massively entitled. I've lived in 3rd world countries and the standard of living even for a minimum wage worker is so beyond that of a poor person in a third world country (like Tanzania or Kenya, for example). People in the US are lucky , and yet, all everyone does is complain and bitch all the time. I think most Americans lack perspective and are ungrateful for what they h…

Let me rephrase your comment. It says the exact same thing you do: >"You have it better than poor people in third world countries, stop complaining about worker abuses you below the poverty line minimum wage people, you should be grateful. Yes since 1970 you're wealth has stagnated or decreased and the top earners have massively increased their share of the pie, but you should be grateful.!!"

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#122

Post by nickthemagicman »

shortandsweet wrote: post #110
nickthemagicman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid is a classic trolly problem. Pull the lever and destroy the economy, put the government in debt, destroy businesses, send millions into poverty, hurt individuals futures, increase infant mortality, increase drug use/overdoses, hurt artists and destroy museums, increase suicides, and more. Don't pull the lever and kill a .01 percent of people above the age of 55 who won't stay quarantined. I think he thinks pull…

No, no it isn't. There are a lot more than 2 options to choose from.

Oh I completely agree.

But these two options seems to be the choices that are being discussed by the media and government.

You're either pro Covid restrictions or you're a granny killer.

I personally think we should quarantine the age 55+ crowd and let the people under 55 go about their business.

The under age 55 group is like 80% of the population who have only 20,000 covid fatalities which is less than car accident fatalities so why are they being locked up?

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#123

Post by boringg »

The more I think about it - He's moving to Texas so that he can pay less taxes, pay less for employees, and put that money to work with Space X and his other investments. I think he's more interested in rockets than cars these days. I bet he's frustrated that he believes he is a better capital deployer than the state of CA - which is probably true if measured by returns on capital - however that isn't what government is for. Government is, ostensibly, to support the well being of entire populations over generations.

To answer some other questions why people like Elon but not other billionaires. He thinks about things more engineer like, doesn't accept things on face value, has a libertarian bent, doesn't seem to value traditional things that the wealthy are attributed to (read: expansive homes [anymore], yachts, fancy collectibles) and is an unbelievable producer.

It seems any capital he does accumulate he deploys directly into his next venture - which creates jobs, products and tax benefits for states.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#124

Post by jlmorton »

busterarm wrote: post #100
jlmorton wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you miss the part where there's been a massive pandemic and sky-high unemployment for the past year? California had the nation's healthiest budget prior to the pandemic, with the highest per-capita surplus, largest rainy day fund. It's true that California relies heavily on income taxes, which include capital gains, both of which are much more strongly impacted by the business cycle than states primarily funded b…

From 2019: https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2019/04/16/no-ca... Where do you expect California to get the money for $1T in unfunded pension liabilities? California's budget is "healthy" only for as long as they ignore their long-term liabilities. California's "healthy" finances was a lie that the state told you in order to have a hope of meeting future obligations. The legislation they keep trying to pass…

First of all, it's not 1T. The figure cited in that article includes not just unfunded pension liabilities, but all state and local debt. We're talking about California's State finances here, so the figure you're citing is absurd on its face.

I don't want to sugar coat the unfunded pension liabilities, but they are much smaller than you suggest. The official figure for the unfunded liability for CalPERS is about $140 billion and about $100 billion for CalSTRS.

Importantly, this is over a 30 year horizon. And the more we pay now, the less we pay later. Newsom's 2019 budget included $11 billion in pension liability payments. Even if you assume CalPERS and CalSTRS investments return worse than the 7% (or 6.1%) that they calculate, that's still in the ballpark of what is needed to pay the liability.

While this is a big deal, the funding levels in the 2019 budget are sufficient to pay the entire liability.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#125

Post by ashtonkem »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #45
ashtonkem wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no direct experience in this, but an acquaintance of ours whose startup exited successfully is similarly leaving CA for tax reasons. My light understanding is that CA has some pretty tight rules around how often you can work in CA before you automatically become a resident for the purposes of taxes. If they find out that you’ve worked in CA too much I presume they’ll try and tax your yearly income.

Yes, actually every state (and most countries) have a similar law. Some people who live and work across state lines deal with this every year on their taxes. I worked part of one year in two different countries, same thing.

Another commenter clarified what I was trying to say; if you become a part time resident of CA then all of your income gets taxed, not just the stuff you earned in CA.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#126

Post by ISL »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #105
ISL wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More-dangerously, it is taxing theoretical money that you haven't yet made. There is no guarantee that the current market-clearing price for a given object is equivalent to that at which a larger inventory can be sold. Taxing capital gains at the time of sale makes sense -- there is actual revenue available for taxation. Taxing unrealized gains can be a path to really-negative outcomes. This is particularly so if the…

There are some loopholes that should be closed however. You can go to a bank and borrow against your shares, using them as an asset without realizing capital gains. In my mind, if you use the shares (gains) as collateral for your benefit, you should have to recognize the capital gains as mark-to-market immediately payable.

Presumably the bank won't accept them as collateral for more than can be realized at the time of sale?

I'm no expert, but I would guess that, if shares are foreclosed upon, the bank's basis is zero (and their taxation short-term)?

(Edit: the downside here is that the government doesn't see any revenue from this approach, which it might otherwise. The shareholder must pay interest, though, which might not be to their advantage.)

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#127

Post by doyouevensunbro »

carapace wrote: post #115
doyouevensunbro wrote: post #66

Musk made it clear what he thought about worker’s rights when he forced the Tesla plant open during the pandemic: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52627744 The modern day robber barons will never care about the working class. It is up to us to look out for ourselves.

(The irony of linking to that through Google AMP!)

Sorry, was on mobile and didn't realize! I will fix.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#128

Post by Darmody »

bitxbitxbitcoin wrote: post #31
bzb6 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great contribution. By the way I’ll never understand people who are proud of their Hispanic heritage but then can’t be arsed to write their own names with the proper accents.

I want to point out that she mentions Latinos, not Hispanics. Latinos are people who hail from Latin America - the kind of people that had Hispanic last names forced on them at some point in history. Makes sense to me why they can't be arsed to write their own names with "proper" accents.

What?

First of all, most of latinos are hispanic. Being Brazilians the largest group of latinos that are not hispanic but ibero-americans.

Second. They were not forced. Isabel of Castille prohibited slavery 500 ago and made marriages between Spanish people and natives legal. Most of the people that went there were men and their kids would inherit their last name.

Thid. There are a lot of latinos that emigrated from Spain and lived there for centuries and they keep their last name.

If they don't want to use accents, that's their decision, but stop making up stuff.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#129

Post by smaryjerry »

boringg wrote: post #95

It's unfortunate that Elon is leaving California given that the state has really lifted him to the pedestal he is on - through the talent network (highly talented employees, VCs), and the progressive policies that CA built for clean technology (Solar, EVs, Energy Storage). That was paid for on the backs of the people. Funny how short his memory is. Elon is a talented man - I absolutely respect what he's done. However…

I wouldn’t give California’s government any credit for Tesla’s success so far. If it was so good then Tesla wouldn’t be the only car company doing so well.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#130

Post by boringg »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #114
boringg wrote: post #95

It's unfortunate that Elon is leaving California given that the state has really lifted him to the pedestal he is on - through the talent network (highly talented employees, VCs), and the progressive policies that CA built for clean technology (Solar, EVs, Energy Storage). That was paid for on the backs of the people. Funny how short his memory is. Elon is a talented man - I absolutely respect what he's done. However…

Things are very different in Silicon Valley and in California now from the 90's when Musk was on the team that started Paypal. I think he might not want to be in the NEW California and Silicon Valley. I could spend a lot of time doing research and trying to figure out why... but things have changed somehow. I think the mass exodus of people from California kind of supports his decision. I think California has a negat…

Things change - I don't disagree. Things can't always been boom times. California has had a pretty strong push since the 80s frankly with the telecom bust in early 2000s.

I would say the cost of living has escalated significantly, the companies that can afford to thrive in the bay area are not hardware startups as VC money has a difficult time support most of their higher capital costs, longer growth cycles and lower multiples on return. The pressure to succeed and level of talent is incredibly competitive. Therefore a lot of the software companies have taken over which is a different demo of people.

Don't believe the narrative on mass exodus - thats a signal that is being amplified in the press. Exodus? Yes, will it come back when we are not in pandemic? I would wager yes.

Is it time for some people to move out of state especially those who don't or never liked it? Yes, take the pressure off our public systems.

Post reply on HN