Why is the Google Cloud UI so slow? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is the Google Cloud UI so slow?

#161

Post by thanksforthe42 » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 4:09 PM UTC

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #115

I think the answer is: This is the best the richest and best companies in the world, with their best paid 100x rockstar developers can do. Google is literally both the creator of the browser (Chrome), the framework (Angular) and the web-app (GCP) we use and still, this mess is the best they can give us. They have direct access to the creators of Chrome and Angular, in some sense they are the owners of the internet an…

After working with graduates from "the best university", I doubt it is "the best".

After using "the best" search engine, and finding what I needed on Bing instead, I started doubting it was "the best".

Perception is different than reality. I genuinely wonder if these are "the best", or if these employees were merely the ones willing to move their lives to a new city for a high paying job.

But I'm sure FAANG and FAANG employees would tell you they are the best.

I wonder if they would fall for marketing tricks. Do "the best" fall for marketing tricks?

Re: Why is the Google Cloud UI so slow?

#162

Post by RankingMember » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 4:10 PM UTC

ubercow13 wrote: post #50

sorenjan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which large companies aren't bad at web frontend? UX seems to always be far down on the list or priorities for modern websites.

I find Github and Amazon's main site to be pretty reasonable in comparison.

Amazon is about the last site I'd use as an example of a good UX. They've clearly been working on making it better, as the account drop-down has shrunk, but the amount of items on this screen is such that it really should have its own search to navigate it. A simple thing like buying a new gift card for someone is surprisingly clunky.

https://i.imgur.com/ZNKOkMN.png

Re: Why is the Google Cloud UI so slow?

#163

Post by Implicated » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 4:10 PM UTC

woah wrote: post #152

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #115

I think the answer is: This is the best the richest and best companies in the world, with their best paid 100x rockstar developers can do. Google is literally both the creator of the browser (Chrome), the framework (Angular) and the web-app (GCP) we use and still, this mess is the best they can give us. They have direct access to the creators of Chrome and Angular, in some sense they are the owners of the internet an…

Is this some kind of dig against the web? I prefer native myself, but obviously there are huge numbers of faster websites out there. The answer is that Google’s frameworks suck, and have for many years. I can’t comment on whether things are equally a mess in their proprietary code, but I don’t see any reason to think they’re not. This is a problem with Google, and their slide into mediocrity.

The parent is being sarcastic, very sarcastic.

Re: Why is the Google Cloud UI so slow?

#164

Post by pradn » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

Googler who doesn't work in front end here, so take my opinion with a grain of salt:

1) A "footsoldier" dev has no choice in frameworks, and heavy frameworks with heavy reusable components are the norm. Frameworks are used to improve dev velocity and ensure consistency among the 100 teams that contribute to the web UI.

2) Devs care about performance but might not have time to do much about it given competing priorities. Cloud is a fast-moving area, so new features are being added all the time. Even if they want to improve performance, they're limited by the frameworks you have to use.

3) For folks that are saying Google controls the browser, framework, and component library, and so should be able to do better than this, you are right. But the different divisions don't talk to each other as much as you'd think. Why should they? Angular devs shouldn't get special access compared to React, no? Whether this is an organizational failure or an enforcement of separation of concerns is up to you. I imagine critics will complain if Chrome did something special for Google properties, and they'd be justified.

Re: Why is the Google Cloud UI so slow?

#165

Post by brundolf » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

Here's an anecdote: my partner used to work at PayPal, and they had a entire team dedicated to just the "wallet" portion of the web UI. There were reasons for this: that piece of the UI had to work in all nationalities, for all languages and currencies, in every browser on every device under the sun.

But here's what I'm thinking: I wouldn't be surprised if every single tab in the Google Cloud UI had its own team, with their own practices, dependencies, resources that need to be loaded, etc. And I wouldn't be surprised if there's nobody in the organization whose job it is to consider the Google Cloud Dashboard as a whole product, in terms of making it a cohesive experience, eliminating redundancies between independent pieces, doing cross-cutting optimizations, getting everybody on the same page. Given how many different things are stuffed into the interface (just look at the navigation menu), that would certainly lead to some bloat.

Re: Why is the Google Cloud UI so slow?

#166

Post by tanilama » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #155

tanilama wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I agree with you here. Make Cloud UI fast is probably not their priority. This is an enterprise product, not consumer facing, users are much less likely to be turned off due to slow UI. They will wait. Integrity/Security would be much higher on the list than UI loading speed. Not surprising at all.

>This is an enterprise product, not consumer facing, users are much less likely to be turned off due to slow UI. Shouldn't this be the opposite? Maybe this is just me but if I have to use something to do my actual job and it take more time that it should because of the UI I'd look elsewhere.

> I have to use something to do my actual job and it take more time that it should because of the UI I'd look elsewhere

The one who made the decision to use GCP would not be the one who would use it actually. If GCP offers a bigger cut than other Cloud providers, loading time would be irrelevant in that optics.

Enterprise users are risk averse. Speed is definitely a plus, but they would care more about stability/predictability than anything.

Re: Why is the Google Cloud UI so slow?

#167

Post by pjmlp » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

levosmetalo wrote: post #23

_Microft wrote: post #15

User to Dev: the memory usage is excessive. Dev with 256 GB RAM to User: WFM I would not be surprised if a lot of these problems could be traced back to developers having above-average network connections and super beefy computers. Combine that with fresh or minimal installs while testing the software, without lots of data that accumulated over month or years of use and in consequence they experience their products a…

Why is everyone assuming that just because someone works for Google has to be competent? Solving algorithmic puzzles is not an indicator or actual technical skills. To me, it looks like a work of incompetent developers led by incompetent technical managers upon requirements of clueless and ignorant product managers.

Coding for Android has taught me that is definitely not the case.

They managed to make a mess worse than JEE, the native layer took 10 years to finally use Android Modules, they keep fixing the header files, still don't have proper C++ bindings and force everyone to write JNI boilerplate by hand.

Re: Why is the Google Cloud UI so slow?

#168

Post by choathedolls » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #155

tanilama wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I agree with you here. Make Cloud UI fast is probably not their priority. This is an enterprise product, not consumer facing, users are much less likely to be turned off due to slow UI. They will wait. Integrity/Security would be much higher on the list than UI loading speed. Not surprising at all.

>This is an enterprise product, not consumer facing, users are much less likely to be turned off due to slow UI. Shouldn't this be the opposite? Maybe this is just me but if I have to use something to do my actual job and it take more time that it should because of the UI I'd look elsewhere.

Not the opposite, but we're missing the simple fact that enterprise products would rather get more features out over micro optimizations. There are constantly clients bringing their demands for additional features or major fixes, very rarely are they "please optimize the UI". For consumer facing products, that's not really the case, unless some massive features are missing, they would rather things be snappy as they tend to be extremely distracted at all times so dropping your app/site/whatever is no big deal.

During work, what else are you going to do if Cloud UI is slow besides just wait? Go through the entire process of trying to convince management to make a switch because UI is a little clunky? Good luck with that!

Re: Why is the Google Cloud UI so slow?

#169

Post by BadInformatics » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 4:15 PM UTC

graderjs wrote: post #101

bassman9000 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slow and clunky is also unreliable, it's did it go through? , did I click on that? Is it loading, or is my connection having troubles? Is the browser again? Some of the ugliest Gov and Gov adjacent pages (e.g. tax collectors, some DMVs) are fast and prompt zero second guessing. They just work.

The slow and clunky I referenced don't have "loading semantics" issues, they all show loaders, action statuses, and many indicate connectivity and save progress for multipage sagas. But you are right that slow and clunky can be unreliable, but so can slick and snappy. Tho, neither of them have to be. In some domains, slick and snappy can feel insubstantial and off-key. It's interesting that the pages you reference ar…

I have never seen anyone in government or big corporate (including management and HR) put down a site for being too fast to load or react. I've seen plenty of instances where they've railed on one for being sluggish or unresponsive...certainly aesthetics are important for a subset of enterprise users (namely those who have to drink/act like they've drunk the kool-aid), but most folks aren't idiots and can definitely feel when something is objectively slow.

Re: Why is the Google Cloud UI so slow?

#170

Post by m12k » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 4:15 PM UTC

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #155

tanilama wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I agree with you here. Make Cloud UI fast is probably not their priority. This is an enterprise product, not consumer facing, users are much less likely to be turned off due to slow UI. They will wait. Integrity/Security would be much higher on the list than UI loading speed. Not surprising at all.

>This is an enterprise product, not consumer facing, users are much less likely to be turned off due to slow UI. Shouldn't this be the opposite? Maybe this is just me but if I have to use something to do my actual job and it take more time that it should because of the UI I'd look elsewhere.

Only if you have a choice. Most people don't have a choice of what tools to use, they are dictated by their employer. And employers may have other priorities (e.g. checking off "serverless" on their bullshit-bingo-card before the next board meeting)