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EU countries team up for semiconductor push

reuters.com

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Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#121

Post by ginko »

burlesona wrote: post #108
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well for one, I and everyone I know happen to live here. I guess if someone can suffer the US' shitty conditions, I guess there's nothing stopping them from going there... except for the US's stringent immigration policies. Can't just hop over the pond to go work there, and I'm fairly sure it's easier for a US citizen to work here than the other way around. Of course, that too is deincentivized thanks to US tax laws…

This is a rude and ignorant statement. First, you admit that "you and everyone you know" live in Europe. Perhaps consider not making sweeping generalizations about places that neither you nor anyone you know live. Second, the many US States are far from perfect, as are the many EU member nations, but conditions in the US in general are hardly "shitty." Other's have pointed out the extraordinary number of immigrants t…

But grandparent's assertion that Europeans should leave everything behind and hop over the pond for more money isn't rude and ignorant?

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#122

Post by Flashtoo »

newbie578 wrote: post #101

Unfortunately, does anyone even takes the EU serious nowadays in tech? The more I follow the European tech scene, the more disappointed I become. EU's biggest tech company aside of ARM is Spotify... Almost every second startup I read about in https://www.eu-startups.com/ is a fintech/budgeting app which is trying to "disrupt" banking. Revolut is the biggest player, yet they are literally throwing money to achieve a m…

What is your definition of a "big tech company"? Do you only mean very young startups? Going by valuation, Revolut is pretty small. ASML is 40x larger than Revolut and 4x as large as ARM. NXP and Adyen are both about as large as Spotify at 50-60 billion.

The startup scene is less vibrant: valuations are typically lower and funding is not as easy to get as it is in Silicon Valley, but you shouldn't discount established players that innovate and mature startups.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#123

Post by cleansy »

Zdup wrote: post #12

How will they be keeping talent? I heard workers in IT are paid low compared to other jobs and especially compared to similar jobs in North America, what stops them. from just going to US/Canada?

Besides not wanting to work/live in the US/Canada for cultural reasons (I personally don't want to raise children where school shootings are so frequent that not all of them are even reported in the news anymore), there is also the visa situation, natural disasters (earth quakes, raging wildfires on the west coast, hurricanes on the east..) and then some.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#124

Post by imtringued »

norwegianwhale wrote: post #28
kuschku wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it quite off putting, that the general approach of EU institutions is to direct resources and economic activity from the top Isn't that method exactly how the silicon valley, and with it companies like Intel, were created? By the US DoD directing money from the top?

The governments spend 45% of GDP yearly. It's very likely that at some point, every company has served the public sector. Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Netflix, IBM, list goes on, weren't envisaged by a 60 year old bureaucrat sitting in Brussels or Washington. They were created by ambitious young men looking to shape the world in their own way.

Europe has lots of young men doing nothing because they aren't needed.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#125

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

ralfn wrote: post #111
arnaudsm wrote: post #8

This is a great decision! I never understood why Europe under-invested in semi considering the talents they have and the strategic nature of it. Intel is dying a slow death, ARM is leaving UK's control, and TSMC is slowly taken over by China. The tables are turning.

Most competitive chips in the world are produced by machines made in the Netherlands at ASMI/ASML The US companies do what they do best: innovate business models and find ways to vendor lock in and own the market. But who's been doing all the research keeping moore's law alive? Lithography? For a country as small as the Netherlands, you can wonder if we could afford from a geopolitical point of view to be producing a…

>Most competitive chips in the world are produced by machines made in the Netherlands at ASMI/ASML

AFAIK, ASMLs fancy EUV tech comes from a Bay Area company they acquired a while ago and not from the Netherlands.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#126

Post by yostrovs »

claudeganon wrote: post #103
yostrovs wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"semblance of basic humanity"... Obviously you have your own metric on that. The United States takes in more immigrants than any other nation and has done this for hundreds of years. You just have hate within you and it shows.

I know. My mother was an immigrant to the US. I've also seen family members go broke and commit suicide after being unable to afford medical care that would otherwise would have been provided to them in more humane countries. Apologies if this colors my view of America's "humanity."

It's always about health insurance. It's the one defining characteristic of nations. The narrow mindedness is incredible.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#127

Post by imtringued »

norwegianwhale wrote: post #53
bildung wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware how Silicon Valley came into being? The Internet? The moon landing?

Stick to government jobs, you will do well.

Considering the workforce surplus nothing will be lost even if all of the money was 100% wasted. However, the effects of fixing the rest of the economy will still massively pay dividends.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#128

Post by _prototype_ »

Zdup wrote: post #12

How will they be keeping talent? I heard workers in IT are paid low compared to other jobs and especially compared to similar jobs in North America, what stops them. from just going to US/Canada?

I'm in the US. The company I work for also hires remote contractors from Europe. We do basically the same thing (software development).

One guy I'm close with, and we've talked about our salaries.

I make 200k My friend in Europe makes 30k.

The difference is astounding.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#129

Post by dragonelite »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #125
ralfn wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most competitive chips in the world are produced by machines made in the Netherlands at ASMI/ASML The US companies do what they do best: innovate business models and find ways to vendor lock in and own the market. But who's been doing all the research keeping moore's law alive? Lithography? For a country as small as the Netherlands, you can wonder if we could afford from a geopolitical point of view to be producing a…

>Most competitive chips in the world are produced by machines made in the Netherlands at ASMI/ASML AFAIK, ASMLs fancy EUV tech comes from a Bay Area company they acquired a while ago and not from the Netherlands.

Yeah i'm always wonder just because the company is located in the EU, does it mean its actually a EU company? Given US institutional investors who probably have big voting power own majority stake in those tech companies.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#130

Post by burlesona »

ginko wrote: post #121
burlesona wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a rude and ignorant statement. First, you admit that "you and everyone you know" live in Europe. Perhaps consider not making sweeping generalizations about places that neither you nor anyone you know live. Second, the many US States are far from perfect, as are the many EU member nations, but conditions in the US in general are hardly "shitty." Other's have pointed out the extraordinary number of immigrants t…

But grandparent's assertion that Europeans should leave everything behind and hop over the pond for more money isn't rude and ignorant?

I do see your point that it could sound like “everyone wants out,” but FWIW to me it didn’t come across that way.

I read the GP as asking “how will the EU stop the people leaving when they prefer to work elsewhere,” which implies that most people are moving for personal preference reasons rather than jobs. I doubt that is the case - I suspect that most humans would prefer to have both an elite job and their family relatively nearby, thus keeping talent locally is pretty easy if you have elite jobs to offer.

But since the GP didn’t elaborate on why they think people are leaving it’s difficult to argue about the posters intentions.

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