EU countries team up for semiconductor push • Hacker News Board

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#71

Post by kuschku » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

carlmr wrote: post #59

norwegianwhale wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The governments spend 45% of GDP yearly. It's very likely that at some point, every company has served the public sector. Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Netflix, IBM, list goes on, weren't envisaged by a 60 year old bureaucrat sitting in Brussels or Washington. They were created by ambitious young men looking to shape the world in their own way.

>Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Netflix, IBM IBM and Google both came almost directly from government money. Amazon, Microsoft and Netflix are arguably actual startups.

Although Microsoft really started as a subcontractor for IBM, which again shows the knock-on effects good government subsidies can have. Hadn't the DoD started SV, most of these companies wouldn't exist today.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#72

Post by claudeganon » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

jariel wrote: post #55

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well for one, I and everyone I know happen to live here. I guess if someone can suffer the US' shitty conditions, I guess there's nothing stopping them from going there... except for the US's stringent immigration policies. Can't just hop over the pond to go work there, and I'm fairly sure it's easier for a US citizen to work here than the other way around. Of course, that too is deincentivized thanks to US tax laws…

"if someone can suffer the US' shitty conditions, " So crap, that people around the world are fighting to get in, what for those jobs that pay 2-3x, and real exciting projects to work on, and for the most part people that actually don't care about your funny accent. It's unwise to discount one of the US's fundamental, perennial and systematic advantages as somehow a drawback. Like it or not - the US has been sucking…

Some people prefer to live in societies with some semblance of basic humanity, where people don't go bankrupt and die from treatable illnesses. Or are just generally more rational than the average American.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#73

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

WhoCaresLies wrote: post #14

LunaSea wrote: post #10

What will actually happen: some countries will spend a trivial amount of money in a PR stunt with not coordination between the countries and result in no advance for the EU countries participating. Source: All other industries in Europe.

Energy, Steel, Semi(ARM), Pharma, Luxury, Distribution, Telecom Giants in Europe, there are a lot more Only Americans think the opposite, i wonder why.. And speaking of market, Europe is a big player, https://www.vgchartz.com/ console sales speak for itself Stop being brainwashed

You forgot the most famous, aerospace, and specifically the Airbus group.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#74

Post by queuep » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 2:19 PM UTC

jariel wrote: post #34

1cvmask wrote: post #2

Arguably the most technically advanced EU country Sweden always avoids Franco-German initiatives and the leader in chip technology in Europe is the brexiting UK with the globally dominant ARM platform (soon to be acquired by NVIDIA from Softbank).

I don't see Sweden leading in tech so much as being 'tech progressive'. Sweden is ahead in some things related to tech, particularly their own version of startups. Spotify remember, is related to the fact that Sweden is a pop-music powerhouse - there is definitely industry synergy there. They are generally well organized for a small country, they make Jet Fighters (quite a feat) which is also related to the fact they…

I would say generally the swedes are progressive as you say. For example, not alot of cash is being used, most use credit cards/apple pay/swish(like cashapp I guess). My guess would be that most swedes haven't even seen the new paper money design.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#75

Post by kuschku » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 2:20 PM UTC

Semaphor wrote: post #63

_Microft wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have number dispensers at the meat or bread counters in supermarkets which is quite neat. You do not have to wait in a queue and can do your other grocery shoppings until the display shows your number. ;)

We have that in Germany as well in some places (CITTI Markt, Northern Germany)

Yeah but CITTI is the only one to actually do modern stuff (although coop/Sky tried out a few as well, but that ended with the REWE acquisition).

And outside of SH, it's even worse.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#76

Post by killtimeatwork » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 2:20 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #38

WhoCaresLies wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't want workers in IT, look at the USA, other than silicon valey (1 state), they all hire from India, and the salary from other states are comparable to what you find elsewhere in the world, including China you want researchers, and EU has ton of them ;)

> you don't want workers in IT, look at the USA, other than silicon valey (1 state), they all hire from India, and the salary from other states are comparable to what you find elsewhere in the world, including China None of this is even close to true. What are you smoking that leads you to believe non-Silicon Valley US IT salaries are comparable to Chinese ones?

How much are senior software developers making in China?

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#77

Post by brmgb » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 2:20 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #42

WhoCaresLies wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energy, Steel, Semi(ARM), Pharma, Luxury, Distribution, Telecom Giants in Europe, there are a lot more Only Americans think the opposite, i wonder why.. And speaking of market, Europe is a big player, https://www.vgchartz.com/ console sales speak for itself Stop being brainwashed

How many of those were put together by governments? (Airbus has pretty heavy government involved, to be fair.)

Most of the big ones in France (Thales, Airbus, Safran, Technicatome, Alstom). Until the 80s, France pretty much had a planned economy.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#78

Post by christophilus » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 2:21 PM UTC

burlesona wrote: post #50

arnaudsm wrote: post #8

This is a great decision! I never understood why Europe under-invested in semi considering the talents they have and the strategic nature of it. Intel is dying a slow death, ARM is leaving UK's control, and TSMC is slowly taken over by China. The tables are turning.

How is TSMC being taken over by China?

Just a guess, but there's been some press about China luring TSMC's talent by offering outsized salaries. Also, there's the increasingly aggressive military presence of China (flying bombers and jets over Taiwanese airspace with ever greater audacity) which suggests it's only a matter of time before China officially takes Taiwan. I honestly don't see the world doing anything to stop that.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#79

Post by killtimeatwork » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 2:21 PM UTC

ginko wrote: post #65

TulliusCicero wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you're comparing revenue with market cap, which doesn't make much sense. Apple's recent annual revenue was ~275B.

I assumed the 440B was the market cap of the industry. Why would they mention revenue without specifying.

They said "market", which is the place where things are bought and sold. That's why it's fairly clear that they refer to revenues and not companies valuations.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#80

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 2:21 PM UTC

tchalla wrote: post #25

Zdup wrote: post #12

How will they be keeping talent? I heard workers in IT are paid low compared to other jobs and especially compared to similar jobs in North America, what stops them. from just going to US/Canada?

There's value (not price) that EU provides which North America, does not. As long as they keep that value, EU will attract talent.

Except that real estate in EU has value and also price, which, compared to local tech wages is quite a high price compared to the ratio in US.

Just ask anyone living in Munich for example, how much a house there costs (almost 4 Million Euros[0]) and what the typical dev wages there look like, but sit down first so you don't fall down.

Average property price in Munich is basically the same as in the Bay Area (aprox. $10k/square meter in both cities with Munich reaching up to $35K/square meter in the desirable areas[0]!!!), but salaries are half that at best.

[0]https://www.ft.com/content/9ba4873a-60f3-11e9-9300-0becfc937...