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Nannou – A Creative Coding Framework for Rust

nannou.cc

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Re: Nannou – A Creative Coding Framework for Rust

#11

Post by MacTuitui »

modernerd wrote: post #3

Nannou is great! I tried it and found that: 1. The initial setup and build time is perhaps a little long or complex for use in classrooms/workshops but it's fine for personal/professional use. 2. Rust's build time might not feel like a natural fit for creative coding. Even though initial build times are long (~3 minutes on an 8-core 2019 MBP), rebuilds are fast enough to create a short feedback loop. It's not as flui…

I was wondering why the sudden spike in followers... I'm also on https://twitter.com/MacTuitui if you prefer.

As for the direct points (note that I am _not_ part of nannou's team, just one _heavy_ user):

1. That's sadly true, it's been a long time issue (not only nannou's problem to be fair, it's shared by all rust projects at the moment): https://github.com/nannou-org/nannou/issues/178

2. If you were following my talk at GitHub universe yesterday where I was livecoding (archive will be up "soon"), the rebuilds are fast enough I don't really care (simple stuff are 3. Exactly why I started using nannou (coming from using processing via scala)!

As for the "why nannou?", and sorry for being nerdy, but nannou is the only framework I know of that does color right: you are working "naturally" in LinSrgb with float16 precision per channel (if that does not speak to you, just look for gamma correction and go down the rabbit hole). The blending of color is exceptional if you're into that sort of things (I am: see for example in HQ https://superrare.co/artwork-v2/road-to-nowhere-12621 )

Nannou is also focused towards the future: there's been a couple of major backend rewrites from opengl to vulkan then webgpu (without any issues for the end-user if you were using the core nannou api functions): you get to play with the latest toys and finally you get access to your whole GPU. No need to stay in a OpenGL-centric state based workflow (that does not make any sense since years)! I've been able to run crazy compute shaders passes while making my own render pipelines _on top of what nannou does_. It's crazy powerful. Also I have to say the team behind nannou has been wonderful in dealing with my requests over the last two years, and they always provided help when I needed (to be honest, I chose nannou because the team was in Australia, and as I am in Japan, it made communication easy). Huge thanks to them. Have a look at the github issues to see how nice the team is.

And with cargo, I'm confident (not very confident, mind you, but optimistically confident) that I'll be able to get the thing building again in a few years.

So if your interest peaked a bit, please try it, if you have any questions, join the matrix chat and ask away!

Re: Nannou – A Creative Coding Framework for Rust

#12

Post by modernerd »

doteka wrote: post #10
modernerd wrote: post #3

Nannou is great! I tried it and found that: 1. The initial setup and build time is perhaps a little long or complex for use in classrooms/workshops but it's fine for personal/professional use. 2. Rust's build time might not feel like a natural fit for creative coding. Even though initial build times are long (~3 minutes on an 8-core 2019 MBP), rebuilds are fast enough to create a short feedback loop. It's not as flui…

I found it funny you mention Clojure since leiningen takes 20 seconds to get to a REPL prompt on a full spec MBP 16 from last year. For all the hype about interactive development, I think Clojure people are deluding themselves if they think that’s reasonable for a dynamic language.

I agree with the sentiment and I don’t use Clojure as much as I did, partly for that reason.

I do recall Clojure/Quil being faster than Rust/Nannou in terms of the feedback loop, because once you’re running a REPL and you start to change and tweak things you can re-evaluate them live in the context of the running sketch.

Neither offers as fast a feedback loop as JS/P5.js, though, and for me Quokka gives much of the benefit of Clojure’s REPL but with less setup, faster boot, and consistency between editors.

Re: Nannou – A Creative Coding Framework for Rust

#13

Post by vanderZwan »

modernerd wrote: post #3

Nannou is great! I tried it and found that: 1. The initial setup and build time is perhaps a little long or complex for use in classrooms/workshops but it's fine for personal/professional use. 2. Rust's build time might not feel like a natural fit for creative coding. Even though initial build times are long (~3 minutes on an 8-core 2019 MBP), rebuilds are fast enough to create a short feedback loop. It's not as flui…

So I noticed that video input is notably unchecked on the current list of features[0]. Looking back at all the hassle that it has always been in Processing and OpenFrameworks (p5.js is lucky to have a browser do the heavy lifting here) this doesn't surprise me, so kudos to Nannou for taking the time to try and figure this out properly.

Still, do you have any idea on what the progress is in that department?

Does the Rust ecosystem provide specific alternatives for individual set-ups? For example, in my case I only care about video capture for Linux. I see that there is a v4l crate out there, as well as something for ffmpeg[1][2]. Is that easy to combine with Nannou? I have zero experience with Rust but if this is not too much hassle I might give it a shot.

[0] https://guide.nannou.cc/why_nannou.html#goals

[1] https://crates.io/crates/v4l

[2] https://crates.io/crates/ffmpeg-next

Re: Nannou – A Creative Coding Framework for Rust

#14

Post by modernerd »

vanderZwan wrote: post #13
modernerd wrote: post #3

Nannou is great! I tried it and found that: 1. The initial setup and build time is perhaps a little long or complex for use in classrooms/workshops but it's fine for personal/professional use. 2. Rust's build time might not feel like a natural fit for creative coding. Even though initial build times are long (~3 minutes on an 8-core 2019 MBP), rebuilds are fast enough to create a short feedback loop. It's not as flui…

So I noticed that video input is notably unchecked on the current list of features[0]. Looking back at all the hassle that it has always been in Processing and OpenFrameworks (p5.js is lucky to have a browser do the heavy lifting here) this doesn't surprise me, so kudos to Nannou for taking the time to try and figure this out properly. Still, do you have any idea on what the progress is in that department? Does the R…

I haven’t dabbled with video input, but you could try asking the community in their Matrix chatrooms: https://matrix.to/#/+nannou:matrix.org

Re: Nannou – A Creative Coding Framework for Rust

#15

Post by modernerd »

MacTuitui wrote: post #11
modernerd wrote: post #3

Nannou is great! I tried it and found that: 1. The initial setup and build time is perhaps a little long or complex for use in classrooms/workshops but it's fine for personal/professional use. 2. Rust's build time might not feel like a natural fit for creative coding. Even though initial build times are long (~3 minutes on an 8-core 2019 MBP), rebuilds are fast enough to create a short feedback loop. It's not as flui…

I was wondering why the sudden spike in followers... I'm also on https://twitter.com/MacTuitui if you prefer. As for the direct points (note that I am _not_ part of nannou's team, just one _heavy_ user): 1. That's sadly true, it's been a long time issue (not only nannou's problem to be fair, it's shared by all rust projects at the moment): https://github.com/nannou-org/nannou/issues/178 2. If you were following my ta…

Thank you for the extra insights!

I can live with the short rebuild times for the performance of Rust. Does Rust have a watch command to auto-rebuild sketches when files are changed? Last time I used Nannou it did not.

I look forward to checking out your GitHub Universe talk when the video’s live. (Guessing it’s this one? https://githubuniverse.com/Nannou-creative-coding-with-Rust/ )

Re: Nannou – A Creative Coding Framework for Rust

#16

Post by OliverM »

doteka wrote: post #10
modernerd wrote: post #3

Nannou is great! I tried it and found that: 1. The initial setup and build time is perhaps a little long or complex for use in classrooms/workshops but it's fine for personal/professional use. 2. Rust's build time might not feel like a natural fit for creative coding. Even though initial build times are long (~3 minutes on an 8-core 2019 MBP), rebuilds are fast enough to create a short feedback loop. It's not as flui…

I found it funny you mention Clojure since leiningen takes 20 seconds to get to a REPL prompt on a full spec MBP 16 from last year. For all the hype about interactive development, I think Clojure people are deluding themselves if they think that’s reasonable for a dynamic language.

Are you restarting the REPL on every change??

Re: Nannou – A Creative Coding Framework for Rust

#17

Post by sabellito »

modernerd wrote: post #3

Nannou is great! I tried it and found that: 1. The initial setup and build time is perhaps a little long or complex for use in classrooms/workshops but it's fine for personal/professional use. 2. Rust's build time might not feel like a natural fit for creative coding. Even though initial build times are long (~3 minutes on an 8-core 2019 MBP), rebuilds are fast enough to create a short feedback loop. It's not as flui…

I'd love to use this to learn Rust, and the API looks awesome (loved the Rect::below), but indeed the iteration loop is key for me when doing creative coding. I even built a couple of things [1][2] to get it as fast as possible in P5.

[1] https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=filipesa...

[2] https://github.com/filipesabella/ProcessingP5

Re: Nannou – A Creative Coding Framework for Rust

#18

Post by steveklabnik »

modernerd wrote: post #15
MacTuitui wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was wondering why the sudden spike in followers... I'm also on https://twitter.com/MacTuitui if you prefer. As for the direct points (note that I am _not_ part of nannou's team, just one _heavy_ user): 1. That's sadly true, it's been a long time issue (not only nannou's problem to be fair, it's shared by all rust projects at the moment): https://github.com/nannou-org/nannou/issues/178 2. If you were following my ta…

Thank you for the extra insights! I can live with the short rebuild times for the performance of Rust. Does Rust have a watch command to auto-rebuild sketches when files are changed? Last time I used Nannou it did not. I look forward to checking out your GitHub Universe talk when the video’s live. (Guessing it’s this one? https://githubuniverse.com/Nannou-creative-coding-with-Rust/ )

  $ cargo install cargo-watch
  $ cargo watch
Not built in but accessible :) there’s a bunch of flags too.

Re: Nannou – A Creative Coding Framework for Rust

#19

Post by eggy »

I had looked at Nannou less than a year ago. It looks like it is really progressing nicely! This may be my seque into learning Rust.

I was also looking at using NAP [1] for creative coding. At the moment, I am playing with Raylib [2], a C game engine, but with lots of libraries to make some graphics with music. You can use any C library for audio creative coding.

[1] https://www.napframework.com/

[2] https://www.raylib.com/

Re: Nannou – A Creative Coding Framework for Rust

#20

Post by modernerd »

sabellito wrote: post #17
modernerd wrote: post #3

Nannou is great! I tried it and found that: 1. The initial setup and build time is perhaps a little long or complex for use in classrooms/workshops but it's fine for personal/professional use. 2. Rust's build time might not feel like a natural fit for creative coding. Even though initial build times are long (~3 minutes on an 8-core 2019 MBP), rebuilds are fast enough to create a short feedback loop. It's not as flui…

I'd love to use this to learn Rust, and the API looks awesome (loved the Rect::below), but indeed the iteration loop is key for me when doing creative coding. I even built a couple of things [1][2] to get it as fast as possible in P5. [1] https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=filipesa... [2] https://github.com/filipesabella/ProcessingP5

I agree that fast feedback loops are important.

There are some experiments with hot-reloading workflows in Rust:

https://fasterthanli.me/articles/so-you-want-to-live-reload-...

https://github.com/irh/rust-hot-reloading

https://github.com/porglezomp-misc/live-reloading-rs

It would be interesting to get this working with Nannou.

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