Live data from Hacker News

Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

businessinsider.com

971–980 of 1001 posts

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#971

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh...not really. Tiny piece of shit houses built in the 60s still go for a million plus in much of the SFBA. The problem is there's a real housing shortage so there's untenable minimum prices for houses. At a million dollars you need a fairly large household income to afford luxuries beyond your house. Even putting down 25% on the house with a good 30 year fixed rate loan you'd be looking at just under $4k a month fo…

> After utilities you're easily over $4k a month. If you scrimped you could maybe keep your other household costs under $500 a month (realistically you're looking at $1k). So you're looking at a take-home of $4.5-5k to just stay afloat This is more than accessible to tech workers at public companies. A 150k income is going to be ~7k a month after taxes. Tier one employers pay significantly more than that to new grads…

Who is offering new grads $150k regularly? What new grad making $150k is going to qualify for a loan on a million dollar house? Where are they getting a down payment? Where are they saving up hundreds of thousands with $3-4K rents before other expenses? How the shit is a dual engineer income saving up $2m in cash by the time they're 30 even with no student loans?

A SWE in their 20s banking $100k a year? Must be nice.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#972

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Really isn't that bad" is your experience. The physical reality is that average January lows in NYC are 20 degrees lower than in SF.

Agreed. It's definitely doable in the winter but is objectively less "easy" (have to pull out/put on weather gear) and more dangerous (lower visibility when it's snowing or raining, and fewer cyclists are out in general so cars don't expect you as much).

I didn't bike when it was raining or snowing but was still able to bike many more days than in California because after work errands didn't wreck my whole plan.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#973

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What exactly are you complaining about? I don't have an English degree or anything, but I'm pretty sure he's complaining about the several hundred thousands in state taxes.

I think the point is: We would all likely gladly trade our current salaries for a salary that incurred "several hundred thousands" in state taxes. If I was paying that much in taxes, that would mean I was a multi-millionaire, and I would pay those taxes with a huge smile on my face and then enjoy my vacation in Fiji, without any resentment whatsoever.

> If I was paying that much in taxes, that would mean I was a multi-millionaire, and I would pay those taxes with a huge smile on my face and then enjoy my vacation in Fiji, without any resentment whatsoever.

Easy come, easy go. When you are productive enough to earn a salary of several millions of dollars, your tolerance for being extorted disproportionately because of your productivity might be different. You might also be upset at the wastefulness of those institutions and individuals who performed the extortion and spent your money unwisely.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#974

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After utilities you're easily over $4k a month. If you scrimped you could maybe keep your other household costs under $500 a month (realistically you're looking at $1k). So you're looking at a take-home of $4.5-5k to just stay afloat This is more than accessible to tech workers at public companies. A 150k income is going to be ~7k a month after taxes. Tier one employers pay significantly more than that to new grads…

Who is offering new grads $150k regularly? What new grad making $150k is going to qualify for a loan on a million dollar house? Where are they getting a down payment? Where are they saving up hundreds of thousands with $3-4K rents before other expenses? How the shit is a dual engineer income saving up $2m in cash by the time they're 30 even with no student loans? A SWE in their 20s banking $100k a year? Must be nice.

> Who is offering new grads $150k regularly?

Google, Amazon (and subsidiaries like Twitch), Microsoft (and subsidiaries like Github), Facebook, Linkedin, Stripe, Square, Lyft, Uber, Snap, Oracle, Apple, Dropbox, Box, Nvidia, Twitter, Slack, Salesforce, ByteDance and a slew of others. And I'm including only companies that pay out 150K in cash equivalents (cash + annual bonus + liquid stock) in that list.

After a promotion, that list probably doubles in size.

> What new grad making $150k is going to qualify for a loan on a million dollar house?

I don't think I ever suggested this. What I did suggest is that someone who graduates at 22 or 23 (and, with the big caveat that they do so with little to no existing debt), gets a 150K starting comp, and has even a modest amount of career growth will be able to save a whole bunch of money in their late twenties.

> A SWE in their 20s banking $100k a year? Must be nice.

Like I said, its absolutely ridiculous.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#975

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears you saw the word libertarian and got caught up in a blue/red debate rather than contemplate what was written.

> got caught up in a blue/red debate Huh? > rather than contemplate what was written That’s exactly what I did? Do you actually have anything substantive to say?

Perhaps reading the thread again will help.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#976

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they just never really liked the city. Pretty hard to like a city where a non-trivial portion of the residents are hating on you and blaming you and others like you for many problems of their own doing. I left a year ago and I personally hope both San Francisco and all of California suffers fiscal collapse. The state grossly mistreats it's most productive citizens, when its those very citizens that fund the greates…

I can echo this. I loved the bay when I first moved here 8 years ago, but the political dynamic of the area, and the ever growing drug/homelessness crisis said dynamic is completely unable to deal with, both have just worn my enthusiasm away.

It should be a federal crime for the police to send their homeless to other cities.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#977

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This argument that cheaper workforce is out in the sticks, waiting for “remote work” is a lie corporate America has told to keep people in the office. The truth is, no matter where you are, talent knows what talent is worth. We price accordingly and in the end the market is stable at a certain price level. We’ve been seeing this over the last decade in major US cities competing for SF-level talent. Tech is o…

200 acre tech village clusters in the mid west that are modern and sustainable islands. They can bring in capital and still not step on the toes of rural America if they don’t want to change the fabric of their society. It makes me uncomfortable to think tech population from Ca descending onto unsuspecting laid back mid western towns. Integration should be gentle and respectful and with consent.

With consent? Shouldn’t everyone have the right to move where they want? Others it sounds like segregation.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#978

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Thanks so much for teaching me how to live. I'm sorry that the city where you live is such a terrible place, I come from a poor country in Europe and homeless people here are treated freely by the State, because people taxes pay for public universal health care. And every neighborhood in every city has their own local homeless that are part of the living tissue of the place, not a nuisance (or something to bring…

How many homeless people have you met in SF? I've talked 1:1 with about 3, and in all three cases the people refused ample help due to 1) not wanting to go to rehab or 2) paranoid schizophrenia, which the city won't deal with to avoid civil rights problems. Boiling everything down to 'homelessness means society is selfish' is over simplifying an incredibly complicated problem. There are things that can be done, but i…

Homelessness as "a problem to deal with" means society is selfish, means exactly what you wrote.

A society where people refuse to see it as a social issue, like sickness, and one that requires a lot of thought because you have to remove them from the eyes of people but don't want to deal with the consequences because it's actually a cleanse under a different name (decency, decorum, etc.).

If SF is the least selfish on the planet (which it isn't, unless you consider a few American cities the World), why people refuse to live with what is obviously a byproduct of their lifestyle?

You can't have all the advantages without any of the drawbacks.

Thinking that it is indeed possible is a symptom of a selfish society.

I live near the Colosseum in Rome and there are homeless living here, in the city centre. Some of them have been living here more than I've been alive.

Nobody thinks they are a problem or have to accept the help, people here accept that where there are people with a lot of money there are gonna be desperate people as well.

Because it's only natural.

And because many have been poor or come from poor families, before being wealthy enough to afford a better life.

It's easier for homeless to find what they need to survive in the big city in the wealthy neighborhood than in the small village in the country in the poor quarter.

They also feel more protected, for obvious reasons (more people with money means more people willing to give, means more wasted food, better illumination, better public services, etc.)

For those in need of medical attention, there is the national healthcare, we call the ambulance, they already know who these people are, bring them in, give them food, a bed and a warm shower and they already know they'll be out on the streets again in a couple of days. At least they have been checked and their health conditions assessed. Because it's their job, they don't have to respond to some kind of profit based mechanism, people taxes already paid for it.

Homeless are not treated like a problem, like rejected or defective people, they are taken care of. Because it benefits the society at large.

Of course some of them are a problem, but it's a tiny minority, our biggest issue is finding as many as possible in winter so they don't die in the street for hypothermia or other cold related disease.

Of course is not all roses, we are still talking about people living in the edge of society and sometimes dealing with them is not a pleasant experience, but it's rare.

Also the police here don't treat them like criminals, which is an important difference as well, police usually protect them from bad people. They are in fact much more often victims of violence than perpetrators.

(According to LAPD report in January this year more than one out of three times police officers used force against homeless people in 2019, a 26% increase from 2018)

It's really not that hard, especially for one of the richest cities in the richest country in the World.

Unwillingness is a form of selfishness.

Not learning from what others already do better is a form of entitlement.

Which is a form of selfishness.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#979

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd also like to point out society does not exist to gift every person peace, safety, and health. A just society offers opportunities, not guarantees. In that case I won't guarantee not to nick your stuff, just give you the opportunity to not have it nicked.

An opportunity is enough, I'd politely decline :)

An opportunity isn’t a choice. It’s more of a dice roll, and you don’t get to see the number.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#980

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my post has nothing to do with career opportunities for women.

To be fair, you'll have a much better time down there if you maintain the fantasy that you were a charming model all along and that American women are cold prudes. Wealthy geeks finding fulfillment of their "so rich that models have to fuck me" dream in the third world is a bit of a trope.

All I can say is.. YIKES

Please see a therapist. whatever is going on in your headspace cannot be healthy

Post reply on HN