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Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

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Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#281
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Someone else will do it if I don't so I might as well get paid for assisting evil." It's a common enough point of view. I disagree with it myself. There's plenty to discuss about just how evil it has to be before you can't live with it anymore. Those are interesting discussion. Binary discussions based on purity are usually pretty dull.

So do you also agree with sanctions against the population? In a sense, censorship is an inaction for a communications company, not a positive act of assistance. Apple doesn't get paid for actually censoring anything. They get paid for whatever legal services they can still sell to innocent civilians. Suppose they were selling food and the govt insists they refuse to sell food to an opposition group. Taking the high…

> Apple doesn't get paid for actually censoring anything.

Yep they do. They don't do it they don't get paid. They decide to do it, they get paid. They can count the difference in revenue and profit from those two alternatives. It is literally one of the things they are getting paid to do. Can you live with doing that for monetary profit? You can certainly make arguments both ways.

This is not "sanctions against a population." Sanctions against a population is something more like blockading medical aid to Iraq through law for years prior to the invasion. Now Iran. It's certainly worthwhile weighing up the ethics of that, and there are dead bodies to count and trade off that decision, which obviously makes it a pretty unpleasant thing to consider, but that isn't what is under discussion here.

If apple refuse to do it, someone else will, to be sure. That's not a reason that should influence whether you can live with doing it or whether it's something you refuse.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#282
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are recording it. Whether they are querying it or not is another matter.

No, they are not recording your location or your “travel history”. The best you can do is suggest that they might have the possibility of using geoIP to deduce locations from logs whose storage duration you do not know . That simply isn’t the same thing. If sneak were to have said something like this: “Apple could be lying to us, and may in fact be using geoIP to deduce people’s location from IP addresses in their lo…

> No, they are not recording your location or your “travel history”.

Another lie. They are recording your location. You already agreed to that except last time, you said it was "anonymized." Then you said that it was recorded but not queried. Now you're saying they're not recording it at all? Keep your facts straight.

The worst part is that you're paying for this abuse from Apple and then justifying it to others. Nobody else is falling for it.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a false dichotomy that both pro-government and pro-corporate people fall into. Whether Apple or "Our Government", we shouldn't be giving this much power to institutions. > But even so, what are we supposed to do? Vote with your wallet. Stop consuming whatever it is that comes with attached strings. Stop putting convenience above principles. Refuse to pay/subscribe/accept any terms that are clearly not in your…

> we shouldn't be giving this much power to institutions. In a democracy, the government derives power from us, the people. In a good and functioning democracy there exists other democratic institutions to ensure that the government cannot abuse the powers granted to them. "Vote with your wallet" is a disingenuous argument were all the corporates work together like a cartel towards a particular business model that ma…

> In a good and functioning democracy there exists other democratic institutions to ensure that the government cannot abuse the powers granted to them.

This is kinda recursive - a "good and functioning" democracy is the one in which such institutions exist, so one where they don't is not a "good" one - but they are no less real for that. Worse yet, a "good" one can turn into other kinds - and the more centralized its governance, the more powerful it is, the faster that can happen.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we shouldn't be giving this much power to institutions. In a democracy, the government derives power from us, the people. In a good and functioning democracy there exists other democratic institutions to ensure that the government cannot abuse the powers granted to them. "Vote with your wallet" is a disingenuous argument were all the corporates work together like a cartel towards a particular business model that ma…

> In a good and functioning democracy (...) institutions to ensure that the government cannot abuse the powers granted to them. This is the idealistic view. In the real world we have people in power, with their own personal interests, with institutions that are ever more distant from the people and with ever less consequences to face when they do wrong. The one exception is perhaps Switzerland, and this would be more…

Switzerland is a country that banned minarets nation-wide in a federal referendum. It's all very democratic, but still an abuse of power.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even a valid comparison and disingenuous because software products now don't need to be sold through any retail outlet, and can be sold directly to the customer through the internet. There is absolutely no need of any app store as a middle man here.

There are plenty of companies who sell their products directly to consumers. So physical products don't need to be sold through third party retailers either.

And some brands have started doing just that. But that's not the point - Amazon or Walmart doesn't prevent me from buying the products directly from the producers / manufacturers or from some other third-party. Apple does precisely that with its app store and ios platform (and soon will do with macOS).

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#286
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Duopoly is not the same as "a finite number of platforms to choose". Duopoly means both companies can restrict the rights of users and stay in business, despite the users may not like them.

That doesn’t change anything that supports the claim that this was a forced choice and therefore the OP didn’t ‘want’ Apple. No finite number of businesses is guaranteed to produce a product to a given person’s liking, duopoly or not. In any case, according to you, GNU/Linux phones are an option, so it’s not a duopoly. Also, let’s note that you’ve conceded they they do want Apple, but are now trying to make the case…

Yes, it does change something. I know many people who hate both companies, but choose Apple as a lesser evil. And yes, this is exactly not a 'real' kind of want.

Given that, and that the OP didn't say they like Apple, you cannot neglect a poosibility of them not wanting Apple.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that the medicine you are proposing is oftentimes worse than the disease. You call for increased regulations as a way to control corporations and "more power to the Government" but don't acknowledge the number of times that the elites have subverted the institutions for their own benefit. Sorry for the bluntness, but that is either malice or stupidity. You completely ignored my argument that is important…

I didn't see any mention of "federal government" in his statements. Regulations can be localized.

Every mention from OP is regarding democracy in the "country" and in the context of a powerful State to "fight" corporate interests. The discourse rings all the Socialist/Social-Democratic talking points. Not buying the idea that he is talking about local communities and direct democracies.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t you say your post is “bitter criticism” of Apple/the AppStore? If so, then welcome to learning the definition of vitriol! If not, then other help than I can provide is needed.

Yes, it is a "bitter criticism" of Apple. It is not a "bitter criticism" of you or your beliefs.

> Yes, it is a "bitter criticism" of Apple

Exactly what I said it was

> It is not a "bitter criticism" of you or your beliefs.

Which I never said it was, I rather said you were replying to me with your vitriol for Apple.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just to emphasize your point, 30% take is relatively small in the retail world. The internet already provides a nearly free distribution medium for software application - so even paying a 5% markup to an unnecessary middleman is just outrageous. The app store only exists so that Apple (and others) can gauge even more money from developers, who ultimately pass on the cost to us customers.

The web also allows any producer of physical products to distribute directly to consumers, doesn't it? So why is it OK for Amazon to get a fee, or any physical retailer? Aren't they unnecessary middle men too?

> So why is it OK for Amazon to get a fee, or any physical retailer? Aren't they unnecessary middle men too?

Amazon or Walmart or any other online or offline super market doesn't prevent either the manufacturer to sell directly to the consumer, or me as a consumer to directly buy from the producer / manufacturer.

Apple does precisely that with its restrictive app store on ios (and soon will on the macOS too), denying the buyer the right to buy an app directly from the developer and avoid the unnecessary burden of the Apple Tax. Due to this same restriction it is also able to charge the developer an annual recurring fee, again unnecessarily raising the total cost of an application for the user.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is a "bitter criticism" of Apple. It is not a "bitter criticism" of you or your beliefs.

> Yes, it is a "bitter criticism" of Apple Exactly what I said it was > It is not a "bitter criticism" of you or your beliefs. Which I never said it was, I rather said you were replying to me with your vitriol for Apple .

This doesn't add to the debate and detracts from it. To come back to it - we were not discussing whether it is fair for Apple to charge how much ever percentage it does on its app store vs Amazon (or anyone similar).

The crux of the matter is that neither Amazon or Walmart or any other online or offline supermarket restricts anyone from buying a product directly from the producer / manufacture or from elsewhere.

Apple does precisely that with its app store on ios (and soon will on macOS too). By depriving us the freedom of buying from the developer (or others) directly, Apple not only violates our privacy but also raises the cost of an app for everyone (by unnecessarily charging the developer an annual recurring fee and by charging a commission on sale).

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