Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

psyche.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 231 posts

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#151

Post by bumby »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #131
bumby wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but I don’t know that is a good assumption because that experiential happiness is, by definition, fleeting. That reflecting fulfilling memory lasts longer and I don’t that is maximized under that assumption

If you find a drug or way to alter a person's chemistry, you could maximize both.

Altering a person's chemistry is exactly what a drug does, so I may be missing what you're trying to illuminate here.

"Could" there be a drug that makes people both experientially more happy and more industrious to the point where they have more reflecting happiness? Sure, but there could also be drugs that cure cancer and make us smarter at the same time too, I just don't have any pragmatic reason to believe we'll see one anytime soon because I suspect they work on very different mechanisms

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#152

Post by User23 »

teaneedz wrote: post #146
User23 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sociopaths are great at empathy. Empathy is the ability to observe and understand others emotions without actually connecting. It’s absolutely essential to be a successful dark triad tape. Sympathy is the “light” counterpart, where you actually emotionally resonate with the other person. Obviously this makes nasty behavior less attractive since you feel the emotional effects too. And now you know why corporate psycho…

source? seems like a rather twisted definition of empathy.

The American Heritage Dictionary[1][2] and the Merriam-Webster Dictionary [3][4] are two that come to mind, but I'm sure that you can find others.

As usual m-w is much sloppier when it comes to making distinctions between similar words, due to their philosophy that common misuse redefines words[5], but even they make a pretty clear distinction between empathy and sympathy and it's clear that sympathy is the one where one actually emotes with the subject.

[1] https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=empathy

[2] https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=sympathy

[3] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empathy

[4] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sympathy

[5] And they aren't even entirely wrong, as anyone can literally tell you.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#153

Post by johnsonjo »

User23 wrote: post #95
dcolkitt wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but its been shown pretty consistently that higher agreeableness (more empathy) has a negative effect Be careful conflating agreeableness with empathy. In Big Five OCEAN, empathy is a sub-facet of agreeableness(A), but not the only one. Other sub-facets of agreeableness are conflict-avoidance, modesty, compliance, and naive trust in others. Intuitively, it would seem to me those are more important contributor to su…

Sociopaths are great at empathy. Empathy is the ability to observe and understand others emotions without actually connecting. It’s absolutely essential to be a successful dark triad tape. Sympathy is the “light” counterpart, where you actually emotionally resonate with the other person. Obviously this makes nasty behavior less attractive since you feel the emotional effects too. And now you know why corporate psycho…

I totally disagree. I’ve only read one book about the topic of the dark triad, sympathy, and empathy, called Social Intelligence. Basically I’ll simplify the definitions for brevity’s sake. Sympathy is that you feel bad for someone. Empathy is actually putting yourself in their shoes and feeling what they feel and adapting to their needs and understanding them as they are. So, maybe you have the terms backwards, or maybe I do? Have you ever heard the phrase, I don’t need your sympathy? What about, I don’t need your empathy? Empathy may be a less common term than sympathy but it is clearly the superior one in my book.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#154

Post by exolymph »

DonHopkins wrote: post #141
fairity wrote: post #81

> Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed? I think these studies are all significantly flawed because successful people with dark personality traits learn to cover up their dark traits. As a result, the cohort of people with "dark traits" in these observational studies will inevitably be skewed towards those who are less successful/intelligent/adaptable. Possessing "dark traits" basically means…

So true, that "Mother Teresa" is a generic term for the epitome of saintly altruism, but the truth of the matter is that she was a fraudulent self promotor who glorified the suffering of others, claimed poverty and disease were gifts from God that build character, and who Christopher Hitchens described as "a fanatic, a fundamentalist, and a fraud," and called "The Ghoul of Calcutta". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cri…

I don't know whether the criticism is legit, but you're not making a great case here, tbh. So she was a conservative Catholic — is anyone surprised by that?

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#155

Post by [deleted] »

bronzeage wrote: post #102
fairity wrote: post #81

> Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed? I think these studies are all significantly flawed because successful people with dark personality traits learn to cover up their dark traits. As a result, the cohort of people with "dark traits" in these observational studies will inevitably be skewed towards those who are less successful/intelligent/adaptable. Possessing "dark traits" basically means…

Sometimes the opposite is true. Sometimes presenting yourself as a "dark-traits" individual with no moral compass and no remorse is the correct action, even when you do have an internal moral compass that would stop you. In the face of bullies, it's better to pretend to be unbridled like them, than be exploited by them. Deterrence and unpredictability are sometimes desirable traits. Sometimes pretending to have no mo…

[deleted]

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#156

Post by DonHopkins »

harimau777 wrote: post #149
DonHopkins wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true, that "Mother Teresa" is a generic term for the epitome of saintly altruism, but the truth of the matter is that she was a fraudulent self promotor who glorified the suffering of others, claimed poverty and disease were gifts from God that build character, and who Christopher Hitchens described as "a fanatic, a fundamentalist, and a fraud," and called "The Ghoul of Calcutta". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cri…

It's not shocking that as an anti-theist Hitchens was not a fan of Mother Teresa.

The reasons why he wasn't a fan of Mother Teresa are certainly shocking though. Do you contest the facts? Or do you think the facts should be ignored and she should be given a pass (and sainthood, literally) just because it's an anti-theist who dared to point those facts out?

And no, not all the criticism I cited (and the wiki page explains in great detail with many citations) was from Christopher Hitchens, or from anti-theists.

The truth is: She wasn’t a friend to the poor, she was a friend to poverty, who fetishized suffering.

If you will only believe the truth about Mother Teresa if it's spoken by a radically pro-theist Catholic, then here are Bill Donahue's own words, President of the Catholic League:

"Mother Teresa WANTED people to live in impoverished conditions, so she could identify with the poor, whom she's serving." -Bill Donohue, President of the Catholic League

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nCaxHN-cY&t=8m18s&ab_chann...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Donohue

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#157

Post by umtacos728 »

fairity wrote: post #81

> Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed? I think these studies are all significantly flawed because successful people with dark personality traits learn to cover up their dark traits. As a result, the cohort of people with "dark traits" in these observational studies will inevitably be skewed towards those who are less successful/intelligent/adaptable. Possessing "dark traits" basically means…

Reminds me of working at Boring Company where when a client came into our office magically we all had masks on but then when they left masks were back off (sociopathic)

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#158

Post by [deleted] »

exolymph wrote: post #154
DonHopkins wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true, that "Mother Teresa" is a generic term for the epitome of saintly altruism, but the truth of the matter is that she was a fraudulent self promotor who glorified the suffering of others, claimed poverty and disease were gifts from God that build character, and who Christopher Hitchens described as "a fanatic, a fundamentalist, and a fraud," and called "The Ghoul of Calcutta". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cri…

I don't know whether the criticism is legit, but you're not making a great case here, tbh. So she was a conservative Catholic — is anyone surprised by that?

[deleted]

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#159

Post by DonHopkins »

exolymph wrote: post #154
DonHopkins wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true, that "Mother Teresa" is a generic term for the epitome of saintly altruism, but the truth of the matter is that she was a fraudulent self promotor who glorified the suffering of others, claimed poverty and disease were gifts from God that build character, and who Christopher Hitchens described as "a fanatic, a fundamentalist, and a fraud," and called "The Ghoul of Calcutta". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cri…

I don't know whether the criticism is legit, but you're not making a great case here, tbh. So she was a conservative Catholic — is anyone surprised by that?

Are you saying most conservative Catholics fetishize poverty and suffering as much as Mother Teresa did? That's a harsh wide brush.

If you don't know if the criticism of Mother Teresa is legit, then you can easily find out for yourself by clicking on the link to the wikipedia page I gave you, reading it critically, and looking at the citations. No need to trust me, or ask me to prove to you what's already so well documented.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa

This might help you get started:

Les côtés ténébreux de Mère Teresa

Larivée, Serge; Carole Sénéchal; Geneviève Chénard (2013). "Les côtés ténébreux de Mère Teresa". Studies in Religion/Sciences Religieuses. 42 (3): 319–345. doi:10.1177/0008429812469894. S2CID 144593256.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/345087

Montreal - A study conducted by Canadian researchers questions Mother Teresa’s views on the poor’s suffering, the dubious management of money by the Missionaries of Charity, and contends the humanitarian image of Mother Teresa is a media-orchestrated "myth".

The paper published on-line on January 15, 2013, in the Journal "Studies in Religion/Sciences religieuses" under the title "Les côtés ténébreux de Mère Teresa” (The dark side of Mother Teresa) is based on the analysis of 287 documents covering 96% of the literature on the life and work of Mother Teresa of Calcutta (born Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu), the Albanian-Indian Roman Catholic nun, 1979 Nobel Peace Prize winner, and founder of the Order of the Missionaries of Charity (OMC). The report concludes that the nun’s sacred image and the events leading to her beatification were the result of a well-orchestrated and effective media campaign.

[...]

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#160

Post by cambalache »

fairity wrote: post #81

> Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed? I think these studies are all significantly flawed because successful people with dark personality traits learn to cover up their dark traits. As a result, the cohort of people with "dark traits" in these observational studies will inevitably be skewed towards those who are less successful/intelligent/adaptable. Possessing "dark traits" basically means…

> I think these studies are all significantly flawed because successful people with dark personality traits learn to cover up their dark traits.

Disagree, people like Napoleon, Stalin, Steve Jobs, Bill Clinton, Putin,Zuckerberg,etc were highly succesful and very high in dark personality traits. If anything I find very difficult to find a highly succesful or powerful person who does not have them. I read once an article about Angela Merkel (A politician widely regarding as one of the good ones, a dove) it was eye opening, she is ruthless, she back-stabbed her long-time mentor and crushed her political enemies with no remorse.

Post reply on HN