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CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

lists.centos.org

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Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#411

Post by dralley »

wang_li wrote: post #337
vbezhenar wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Red Hat still has to release the patches, right? I think that's a gray area. For example RHEL has some support branches where they'll produce security updates for minor updates. For example you can pay a lot of money and you'll get RHEL 7.2 with security updates. They won't release sources for those packages unless you'll ask for those packages (you, as a paid client, not you as nobody in the Internet). But if you'…

> They won't release sources for those packages unless you'll ask for those packages (you, as a paid client, not you as nobody in the Internet). If the code in question is licensed under the GPL and Red Hat isn't the owner of the code, then I as a rando on the Internet can ask them for the source and if they don't provide it, the person who does own the code can sue them and revoke their license to distribute said co…

That is not how the GPL works. The GPL only entitles you to the source code of software for which you have been provided binaries. If the software has not been provided to you in binary form, you have no claim to the source.

This is why the cloud providers can get away with custom in-house patches to the Linux kernel.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#412

Post by zymhan »

arbitrage wrote: post #394
kbenson wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That in no way explains why they don't continue to have both. They indeed will have both for another year. There was no requirement the Stream product even use the CentOS name. CentOS was a community project whose leadership and control was taken over (acqui-hired as you say) by Red Hat and then it's core use case for the majority of people actually using it was discontinued. That is a statement of facts that happene…

> That in no way explains why they don't continue to have both. They're a business ... are you honestly and in good-faith actually confused about this outcome?

Oh come now, this is Red Hat, a company based on Open Source software. We're not wrong for wanting to hold it to a higher standard. They have benefited from the OSS community just as they have contributed to it.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#413

Post by ueshiba9 »

mrweasel wrote: post #93
Veen wrote: post #77

> If you are using CentOS Linux 8 in a production environment, and are concerned that CentOS Stream will not meet your needs, we encourage you to contact Red Hat about options. Not exactly unexpected, but disappointing: if you want to continue using something like CentOS, pay for RHEL. Lots of web hosting providers will be quite concerned.

Why exactly is that disappointing? Isn't it more disappointing that some companies expect to be able to run the same OS for 13 years and get security patches backported for free? I don't think this will hurt RedHat at all. How many RHEL customers are actually generated as a result of providing CentOS for free? Not many I suspect. Those who want to learn about RHEL can still get Fedora, or CentOS Stream, or a RedHat d…

Agree, "customers" who use CentOS are not paying for Linux and won't pay for any other distro. Somebody has to work to provide a stable distro and supported on many hardwares, hypervisors/clouds and softwares running on top of OS. But the funny things is that usually there is a huge contradiction on people who uses CentOS on production, they are the same people who pays for proprietary software like Windows, Office, Oracle DB, VMware, etc... sometimes spend millions of dollars on these softwares, but save some bucks using a free Linux distro!! But I do respect the ones who are entirely open source, just don't think any big company besides Google for example, would have a huge IT teams to support everything

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#414

Post by AshamedCaptain »

p49k wrote: post #355
vbezhenar wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider downgrading to CentOS 7. It should work for 4 more years.

Running modern versions of software on CentOS 7 can be a giant pain due to the old version of glibc that’s baked in.

I was supporting CentOS 6 until about a couple weeks ago.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#415

Post by [deleted] »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #266
awill wrote: post #109

This is awful. It's proof of the downsides to the IBM acquisition, which I think we all knew was coming. Imagine if you were running a business, and deployed CentOS 8 based on the 10 year lifespan promise. You're totally screwed now, and Red Hat knows it. Why on earth didn't they make this switch starting with CentOS 9???? Let's not sugar coat this. They've betrayed their users. I personally run a CentOS 7 server (as…

>> Imagine if you were running a business, and deployed CentOS 8 based on the 10 year lifespan promise. You're totally screwed now, and Red Hat knows it. The hypothetical you posed is the actual situation, I am now learning, I have apparently forced on my team. We've ramped up labor 3x revenue preparing product launch in 90 - 180 days. We created an image containing centos 8 , Java , postgres and tomcat a year ago an…

[deleted]

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#416

Post by carwyn »

Like many my first reaction was shock, but at the same time not surprised. Have even emailed the address provided with feedback as I work for a University which like many use a mix of RHEL and CentOS.

As per the FAQ though I suspect there is more to this than meets the eye. Two things strike me: 1. The suggestion that low or no cost options for RHEL are coming for certain categories of user. 2. As much as Stream will be a rolling and "beta" channel, Fedora/CentOS/RHEL already have testing repos within their release process so Stream may not be as unstable as this might first suggest.

With local staged repository mirrors Steam may end up being less volatile than the existing point releases which were notorious for breaking things at times.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#417

Post by marcinzm »

kcb wrote: post #322
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... as opposed to paid/proprietary software, that never breaks compatibility, hikes prices, or screws over their customers?

At least they don't advertise a support period then cut it 8 years short.

Companies do this all the time especially when there's an acquisition or change in management. In some cases they may technically still support it but with ever growing bugs, security issues and so on.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#418

Post by em500 »

toyg wrote: post #400
em500 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know Oracle builds from CentOS rather than RHEL sources. Nor that RHEL doesn't release sources anymore? If that's true, I wonder how Oracle got some of their 8.x releases out much earlier than CentOS. (Oracle Linux 8.3 2020-11-13 vs CentOS 8.3 2020-12-08, Oracle Linux 8.0 2019-07-19 vs CentOS 8.0 2019-09-24.) I'm assuming here without verification that both track the RHEL 8 point releases.

if i remember correctly, RHEL source dumps always lacked some machinery to actually produce a working release; that’s where CentOS were doing actual work, painstakingly replicating all the compilation quirks to end up with RPM builds that matched RHEL. That’s likely why another clone might want to start from CentOS rather than RHEL sources.

That doesn't answer my question how Oracle got some 8.x builds released weeks/months earlier than CentOS.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#420

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #414
p49k wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running modern versions of software on CentOS 7 can be a giant pain due to the old version of glibc that’s baked in.

I was supporting CentOS 6 until about a couple weeks ago.

Then surely you understand what a pain it is.
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