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Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

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Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#271

Post by wayneftw »

ubermonkey wrote: post #256
wayneftw wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What IS it about Apple...? I guess you haven't been around for the past 20-30 years? They're part of a culture war that they helped create surrounding Mac vs PC, iOS vs Android. Steve Jobs even created these types of wars in-house. (e.g. the new Mac team vs everybody else - see The Pirates of Silicon Valley) Business is war. People choose sides and they must defend their choice out of pride. It's like Ford vs Chevy…

Wow. Most of what you wrote would have to improve to be considered merely wrong.

Okay. I'm not wrong at all but I'll wait for your explanation as to why you think I'm wrong and also what the correct answer is in your opinion.

Without either of those, your comment is just noise.

Oh I see, you're the one asking the question - Pfft so, since you don't know the answer yourself I'd love to hear how you know that my answer is incorrect. I've only been around computer culture since the 70s when Apple was born... what could I possibly know?

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#272

Post by zepto »

fsflover wrote: post #269
zepto wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but if they didn’t want Apple this would be irrelevant. If you don’t want Apple, you only have Android regardless of whether Apple is stopped or not. That sentence is relevant to the meaning of the paragraph, and implies that they do want Apple.

> If you don’t want Apple, you only have Android regardless of whether Apple is stopped or not. No, there are also GNU/Linux phones.

Quoting you: “Because without Apple you only have Android.”

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25350315

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#273

Post by zepto »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #262
zepto wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said sneak’s statement was correct. Sneak said that they were recording people’s travel history, which is a lie. You haven’t provided any such proof. All you have done is equate logging ip addresses with recording people’s travel history, which is false.

They are recording it. Whether they are querying it or not is another matter.

No, they are not recording your location or your “travel history”.

The best you can do is suggest that they might have the possibility of using geoIP to deduce locations from logs whose storage duration you do not know.

That simply isn’t the same thing.

If sneak were to have said something like this:

“Apple could be lying to us, and may in fact be using geoIP to deduce people’s location from IP addresses in their logs. I have no proof of this, but it is technically feasible, and I don’t trust them not to be doing it.”

I would not say they were lying. These are all true statements.

But to say “Apple is recoding your travel history” when really all you have is speculation about what is technically possible, is a lie.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#274

Post by fsflover »

zepto wrote: post #272
fsflover wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don’t want Apple, you only have Android regardless of whether Apple is stopped or not. No, there are also GNU/Linux phones.

Quoting you: “Because without Apple you only have Android.” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25350315

Yes, unless you know about alternatives. This is why I commented in the first place.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#275

Post by zepto »

fsflover wrote: post #274
zepto wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoting you: “Because without Apple you only have Android.” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25350315

Yes, unless you know about alternatives. This is why I commented in the first place.

Right, but both of us believe that the OP didn’t know about the alternatives, so they clearly were saying they did want Apple.

If you want to claim that they would change their mind about wanting Apple if they knew about the alternatives, that is unlikely but not impossible.

However when they made the comment, they clearly did want Apple because otherwise they wouldn’t have cared about whether anyone ‘stopped Apple’.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#276

Post by fsflover »

zepto wrote: post #275
fsflover wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, unless you know about alternatives. This is why I commented in the first place.

Right, but both of us believe that the OP didn’t know about the alternatives, so they clearly were saying they did want Apple. If you want to claim that they would change their mind about wanting Apple if they knew about the alternatives, that is unlikely but not impossible. However when they made the comment, they clearly did want Apple because otherwise they wouldn’t have cared about whether anyone ‘stopped Apple’.

They might also choose Apple, since otherwise it would be Android (i.e., even worse). Apple has a lot of drawbacks too after all. This is not what I would consider "wanting", it's a forced choice (just like choosing Android when Apple is "stopped" would be).

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#277

Post by zepto »

fsflover wrote: post #276
zepto wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but both of us believe that the OP didn’t know about the alternatives, so they clearly were saying they did want Apple. If you want to claim that they would change their mind about wanting Apple if they knew about the alternatives, that is unlikely but not impossible. However when they made the comment, they clearly did want Apple because otherwise they wouldn’t have cared about whether anyone ‘stopped Apple’.

They might also choose Apple, since otherwise it would be Android (i.e., even worse). Apple has a lot of drawbacks too after all. This is not what I would consider "wanting", it's a forced choice (just like choosing Android when Apple is "stopped" would be).

That’s not a real distinction.

There are always a finite number of platforms to choose from and they all always have drawbacks so any choice of platform can be arbitrarily deemed ‘forced’ by this logic.

The distinction therefore has no meaning, and doesn’t change the implication that the OP wanted Apple.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#278

Post by fsflover »

zepto wrote: post #277
fsflover wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might also choose Apple, since otherwise it would be Android (i.e., even worse). Apple has a lot of drawbacks too after all. This is not what I would consider "wanting", it's a forced choice (just like choosing Android when Apple is "stopped" would be).

That’s not a real distinction. There are always a finite number of platforms to choose from and they all always have drawbacks so any choice of platform can be arbitrarily deemed ‘forced’ by this logic. The distinction therefore has no meaning, and doesn’t change the implication that the OP wanted Apple.

Duopoly is not the same as "a finite number of platforms to choose". Duopoly means both companies can restrict the rights of users and stay in business, despite the users may not like them.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#279

Post by Hokusai »

webmobdev wrote: post #234
dimitrios1 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'Big government' is just a catch name for many anti regulation lobbying entities to remove power from citizens and acumulats it on corporations. This is completely reductionist, and completely uninformed. Banks, as an easy counter example to your worldview, don't have armies of third party regulators, corporate compliance staff, and auditors because they hate regulation. They love big government. It acts as a barri…

Strong banking regulations is necessary to ensure that people trust the banks, and the banks don't misuse the fund you deposit with them. The collapse of some banks in US and India due to lax oversight, greed and corruption, in the last 2 decades is strong proof of this.

> due to lax oversight

That is an important point. Not only realisations are needed, regulations need to be enforced if we expect the banking system to work.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#280

Post by zepto »

fsflover wrote: post #278
zepto wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not a real distinction. There are always a finite number of platforms to choose from and they all always have drawbacks so any choice of platform can be arbitrarily deemed ‘forced’ by this logic. The distinction therefore has no meaning, and doesn’t change the implication that the OP wanted Apple.

Duopoly is not the same as "a finite number of platforms to choose". Duopoly means both companies can restrict the rights of users and stay in business, despite the users may not like them.

That doesn’t change anything that supports the claim that this was a forced choice and therefore the OP didn’t ‘want’ Apple.

No finite number of businesses is guaranteed to produce a product to a given person’s liking, duopoly or not.

In any case, according to you, GNU/Linux phones are an option, so it’s not a duopoly.

Also, let’s note that you’ve conceded they they do want Apple, but are now trying to make the case that this isn’t a ‘real’ kind of want.

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