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Some quick points about this. The British Medical Journal and Royal Society of medicine have published a number of concerns about this vaccine. "Will covid-19 vaccines save lives? Current trials aren’t designed to tell us" https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037 "All these data for the different vaccines are potentially very promising, but none of the phase III trials have been published in peer reviewed journals o…
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Why is this comment getting downvoted? seems like a fair question. I've seen this now in several threads where even questioning side effects of the vaccine gets downvoted and looked down upon like they did something illegal. This is not HN I used to know.
I'm just going to write it: There's always going to be a minority that's shafted by the medical community, we don't matter as long as the majority benefits (fair enough imo, except I can't do shit even if I sign up to absolve everyone of responsibility and take it all on myself). There will be side effects, they will be dismissed by doctors, people will be marginalized, called uneducated morons and pushed towards mor…
But Im not so sure what you expect will happen here? Of course there are side effects? Every medical treatment on earth - literally since humanity started - has had side effects. The question is if those side effects are justifiable in comparison to the prevented harm to society.
And if you ask me, the prospect of millions of dead people due to, or related to covid makes a pretty huge load of side-effects tolerable if you see it like that.
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The plans are expect to change as/if other vaccines become available. If the other vaccines in the pipeline get approved on the expected best case schedule we will be vaccinating anyone who wants it starting march. If there are unexpected issues things could take longer (the UK could still discover something and withdraw Pfizers' approval as a worst case)
I thought we were constrained by supply chain issues? Even if a vaccine was approved that didn't require ultra-low temperature storage, we need glass vials, etc.
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Companies that have a vaccine are aware of image. They know that the world is watching, and this is a big marketing opportunity. They will make a profit, but long term goodwill is more valuable than any profit they could make selling to billionaires, so I doubt anything will go to auction. The hospitals treating Saudi princes are real hospitals. So they can win auctions if it comes down to that, because they are invi…
Yes, an actual open auction would be astonishingly bad PR! But quietly, on the side? Maybe I'm a cynic but I struggle to believe the billionaires won't find a way. If not from the main production... they had 43538 phase III participants, there must be leftovers, which won't appear in the books as real production... maybe you can route those to important donors of your philanthropic arm, or something? Run some "furthe…
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Why is this comment getting downvoted? seems like a fair question. I've seen this now in several threads where even questioning side effects of the vaccine gets downvoted and looked down upon like they did something illegal. This is not HN I used to know.
I'm just going to write it: There's always going to be a minority that's shafted by the medical community, we don't matter as long as the majority benefits (fair enough imo, except I can't do shit even if I sign up to absolve everyone of responsibility and take it all on myself). There will be side effects, they will be dismissed by doctors, people will be marginalized, called uneducated morons and pushed towards mor…
Everything in life has side effects. Everything in life has trade offs. It's not about the lack of side effects or even their magnitude or severity, it's about balance: do they help more than they harm?
The most innocent substance out there, water, can kill you. And I don't mean drowning.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
Many of the arguments people make about modern medicine are:
A) uninformed
B) not made in good faith
Modern medicine is serving us quite well, so any counter argument better be rock solid.
I'd be curious what your specific complaint is and how you back it up.
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> It seems almost impossible that the vaccines pose a greater risk than the risk of not using them. While this is a reasonable conclusion from what we've read in the media, it's worth noting that this is at odds with the official opinions of the EMA and the FDA. They both believe more data is needed, or that the agencies need more time to analyze the data, before they can decree that the benefits most likely outweigh…
There's also a strong political reason for the US to not approve the vaccine as fast. Fauci had to walk back[0] comments about the UK "rushing" the approval, stating "The point that I was really trying to make [...] in the United States there is such a considerable amount of tension of pushing back on the credibility of the safety and of the efficacy that if we in the United States had done it as quickly as the UK di…
Such politeness :-))
Most people outside the US don't call what's happening in the US "scepticism" :-(
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If they don't want it, I'm more than happy to fly to the UK to get it. Hong Kong doesn't seem to want to vaccinate most people before 2022 https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/artic...
the pfizer vaccine doesn't prevent infection, but does save lives by preventing severe symptoms, which is why at-risk groups are prioritized. the vaccines that actually prevent infection are still being developed. 2022 sounds realistic for that, if not a tad early.
I work here and was in clinic this morning. We had three eligible patients. One consented to it and is having the vaccine now. The other two declined. Not making a point, just a data point.
Seems fitting that in a place where we can't beat the virus because of people who refuse to distance and wear a piece of cloth over their face, it's possible we won't even be able to beat it with a vaccine... because of the same assholes.
1: https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2020/09/17/u-s-public-no...
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Interesting. Thanks for sharing the anecdote. Seems odd to me you are asking people. Isn't there a line or something? My biggest concern with virus rollout is millions of doses sitting on shelves waiting for "high priority" people to get them (who refuse) while "low priority" people are still banned from getting.
isn't there a priority list? If people refuse it should go to the next one
I work here and was in clinic this morning. We had three eligible patients. One consented to it and is having the vaccine now. The other two declined. Not making a point, just a data point.
Same thing happening on this side of the pond. It's been reported that approximately 50% of Americans say they definitely or probably would refuse a vaccine [1]. And the trend over time is more and more are planning to refuse. Seems fitting that in a place where we can't beat the virus because of people who refuse to distance and wear a piece of cloth over their face, it's possible we won't even be able to beat it wi…