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Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

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Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#91

Post by speeder »

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #34
speeder wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This made me remember something about castles... I was wondering, how useful are ancient castles in modern battles? Armchair generals all over the planet kept prattling about them being useless because modern weaponry is awesome and all... Then I went to look properly: 1. Kerak de Chevaliers, yes, that one crusader castle, was occupied during the Syrian war, and gave a hard time to the enemy outside, the castle worke…

A castle gives you a hard time when you only have a gun. If the military has aircraft, missile launchers, and artillery, they'll be flattened before any fighting occurs. Plus it's a pretty easy target.

Krak DID got hit with all of these, it is still standing, and the people inside still kept fighting.

Same for some other castles in Syria from my research out of curiosity.

But I assume that people wanted to take the castles, not turn them into a parking lot... if you can nuke or throw MOAB into them, then it is obviously another matter entirely.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#92

Post by SuoDuanDao »

chrisseaton wrote: post #83
SuoDuanDao wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not sure if you got flagged because Afghanistan didn't have actual 'castles' or because some American Exceptionalists took exception to your language...

> not sure if you got flagged because Afghanistan didn't have actual 'castles' https://www.google.com/maps/place/Nad-e-+Ali,+Afghanistan/@3...

More the fool I, of course it would. Though I never heard of the Taliban using them, natural caves are probably better against aircraft.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#93

Post by themaninthedark »

Shacklz wrote: post #73
folli wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree with this assessment. The opinion provided by /u/Shacklz is unfortunately rather widespread in Switzerland and mostly based on some outdated views on the role of the army ("plausible during the height of the cold war"). As Switzerland's strategic reserve, the army has a broad array of tasks, ranging from support in low threat levels (current example: preparing for the storage and distribution of Covid…

> mostly based on some outdated views on the role of the army And this is where we differ - I think _your_ opinion is outdated ;) The services that you listed mostly do not require an "army", what exactly is camouflage gear & combat training good for with regards to helping with covid-related tasks (or any other "Katastrophenhilfe"-related endeavour)? The "Swiss army knife" metaphor is exactly what I so despise about…

Si vis pacem, para bellum. "If you want peace, prepare for war"

I am not Swiss so my opinion might not matter to you but I would say that there are many skills that are taught with military service that help out in other circumstances. Organization, mindfulness and the ability to give and receive orders.

>currently, put 10 Swiss men in a room, and it will take at >most half an hour until their army experience becomes a >topic

What is wrong with having something that is common across generations and backgrounds that allows people to connect with each other?

In my opinion we should train people to have many skills or better put:

>A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an >invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, >write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, >comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act >alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch >manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight >efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. > >-Robert A. Heinlein

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#94

Post by heavenlyblue »

chrisseaton wrote: post #81
gonzo41 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those were unguided bombs. Modern artillery and mortars will just slowly wear down a static target like that. From a safe distance as well.

How does 'safe distance' work? If you can hit them... they can hit you. And they know exactly where you're firing from as soon as you send up a shell into the air.

You can shoot and move the artillery immediately.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#95

Post by chrisseaton »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #94
chrisseaton wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does 'safe distance' work? If you can hit them... they can hit you. And they know exactly where you're firing from as soon as you send up a shell into the air.

You can shoot and move the artillery immediately.

Well that's not safe distance then is it - that's manoeuvring. You can do that at any distance. And you can't suppress if you're firing one shot, spending five minutes moving, and then firing one more shot.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#97

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

greatpatton wrote: post #84
rscho wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even 10 missile bases would still be cheaper than the planes we bought. Now what could go wrong with limitless military spending, you might ask? Easy: it's called "the USA". I've been there, and I don't want to go back.

Missile bases are just sitting ducks that are waiting to be destroyed before the real attack... Look at the Karabach, The nice S300 anti-airplane system was obliterated at the start of the war with cheap drones. (even the anti-drones systems were destroyed by drones)

Can I ask, what country is expected to invade Switzerland?

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#98

Post by baybal2 »

greatpatton wrote: post #84
rscho wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even 10 missile bases would still be cheaper than the planes we bought. Now what could go wrong with limitless military spending, you might ask? Easy: it's called "the USA". I've been there, and I don't want to go back.

Missile bases are just sitting ducks that are waiting to be destroyed before the real attack... Look at the Karabach, The nice S300 anti-airplane system was obliterated at the start of the war with cheap drones. (even the anti-drones systems were destroyed by drones)

> Missile bases are just sitting ducks that are waiting to be destroyed before the real attack...

And so are your airbases, and aircrafts on "blind" patrol to low observable, ground hugging targets.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#99

Post by gnyman »

btrautsc wrote: post #16

These are very cool. Especially the ones that appear to be natural features. Unfortunately, my first though upon seeing military installations camouflaged as cabins, barns, homes - that gives an invading enemy a good excuse to target civilian structures...

I had the same thought, I even assumed there would be some international wartime law against it. But turns out it's apparently ok according to this study I found from US Naval College

> Conventional IHL (international humanitarian law), then, indicates that at least one form of disguising a military object as a civilian object—camouflage—is a permissible ruse of war, not a prohibited act of perfidy.

Page 521 https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/42550238.pdf

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#100

Post by nix23 »

xg15 wrote: post #88
nix23 wrote: post #3

I was in many of them, one of the most impressive was "the 5-star hotel" with a hall so big that you could calibrate tank-cannons and in another "bunker/fortress" you could "throw" out f-18 fighter-jets. Edit: BTW that the entrance of the 5-Star: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Me... The plate is for making fun of new recruits because it's the opposite of a "5-Star" and for sure not a "Hotel…

> 5-star hotel Before viewing the picture, I was thinking they had hidden a whole base in a fake Four Seasons building in Zurich or something like that. After all the other camouflage, I wouldn't have put it past them.

Haha, i was laughing out lough!! Thanks, you made my day....but on the other hand...who knows :)
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